This is the Imagine Mailing List (imagine@email.sp.paramax.com) Archive #54 covering messages from Sep. 03. 1994 to Oct. 03. 1994. If you have any questions or problems with this file, E-mail Nik Vukovljak at nvukovlj@extro.ucc.su.oz.au To join the IML, send email to: imagine-request@email.sp.paramax.com and in the subject line type in: subscribe Thanks goes to Neil Miller for the Imagine Mailing List Processor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #1 ***************************************:-) Subject: Transparent objects Date: Sat, 3 Sep 1994 15:59:03 +0059 (EDT) From: "Mr. Scott Krehbiel; ACS (PC)" I forgot to mention in my last message that I'm using 2.0, and that my problem of transparent objects still showing up happens in scanline and in trace. They show up as an odd, dingy grey-green over my grey background. I have all attributes set to the defaults, except for filter values all at 255. I'd like to make this thing completely dissapear, and any help would be appreciated. Scott Krehbiel scott@umbc7.umbc.edu +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #2 ***************************************:-) Subject: Can;t make stuff fully Xparent Date: Sat, 3 Sep 1994 15:40:55 +0059 (EDT) From: "Mr. Scott Krehbiel; ACS (PC)" I'm having a strange problem.. I've never needed to really make something dissapear before, but I need to have an object fully fade out past a certain distance from its origin. I was using the radialSM texture, but when setting the transparency values (actually filter) to 255, 255, 255, it still showed the object as a faint green color. I found the same result if I just created a primitive shape, made it fully transparent, and rendered it... it's still visible over my background grey. I had thought that setting filter to max values, the object would just dissapear, but apparently not. Does anyone have any nifty insights on this one? Thanks Scott Krehbiel scott@umbc7.umbc.edu +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #3 ***************************************:-) Subject: Sorry - no texture desciption guide Date: Sat, 03 Sep 94 16:51:03 GMT From: flynn@scala.ping.dk (Finn Kettner) Hello out there in renderland. I've had a few requests for the AmigaGuide version of the texture textfile on the Imagine 3.0 distribution disks, but am sorry to say that for the moment they will not make it to AmiNet as they might be copyrighted and I must say that I'm not very keen on uploading copyrighted stuff to Aminet, so untill Randy R. Wall tells us what Impulse is saying about this there will be no files uploaded from my side (at least not the AmigaGuide file). I might upload the texture test renderings, but as they should be there already as collection images instead of seperate images, then I think that it would not be necessary to upload just another batch of images. Should Randy come back with a possitive response from Impulse, then I will be uploading them ASAP. Yours faithfully. Finn Kettner. END OF LINE -- Fribert Consult, Chief of development Finn Kettner, (Home address), Ved Bellahoej 17A 3 tv., DK-2700 BRH, Denmark Home (VOICE only) (+45) 31 28 83 55 Fido-Net: 2:236/19.13 E-Mail: flynn@scala.ping.dk AmigaNet: 39:141/104.13 -- Via Xenolink 1.90 / XenolinkUUCP 1.0 +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #4 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Transparent objects Date: Sat, 3 Sep 1994 16:56:38 -0700 (PDT) From: "Randy R. Wall" > I forgot to mention in my last message that I'm using 2.0, and > that my problem of transparent objects still showing up happens > in scanline and in trace. They show up as an odd, dingy grey-green > over my grey background. I have all attributes set to the > defaults, except for filter values all at 255. I'd like to make > this thing completely dissapear, and any help would be appreciated. Well, if its still happening in Trace mode then I think its because you have the Attributes in there default setting..try what I said to and set everything to 0 except the Filters, they should all be 255. Don't worry about how this will morph, as it should all flow fine as everything will fade together.. Are you using any textures on this object? =RRW= +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #5 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Can;t make stuff fully Xparent Date: Sat, 3 Sep 1994 16:41:28 -0700 (PDT) From: "Randy R. Wall" > I was using the radialSM texture, but when setting the transparency > values (actually filter) to 255, 255, 255, it still showed the > object as a faint green color. I found the same result if I > just created a primitive shape, made it fully transparent, and > rendered it... it's still visible over my background grey. > > I had thought that setting filter to max values, the object would > just dissapear, but apparently not. Does anyone have any nifty > insights on this one? Well, one thing you need to do is, make sure the color of the object is completly black, in fact I find setting everything to 0 and only setting your Filters to 255 will help. Though sometimes its hard in scanline to get it to be completly unnoticable, but when it is at its most transparent in the animation just remove the object from the Action Editor at that point and it seams to work fine for most circumstances.. I have done this in an animation were a space ship uses a cloaking device and all looked great! The ship had a wave effect on it as it disapeared..The problem lies in using scaneline I think? as with raytracing I have not ever run into this problem...at least not yet... =RRW= +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #6 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Sorry - no texture desciption guide Date: Sat, 3 Sep 1994 17:03:08 -0700 (PDT) From: "Randy R. Wall" > so untill Randy R. Wall tells us what Impulse is saying about this there > will be no files uploaded from my side (at least not the AmigaGuide file). Me! well, I have one too, and am hoping to find out what Impulse says about it, but can probably tell you right off the bat that its a no go from Impulse. I doubt they will uncopyright it for me, or you, or anyone for that matter.. So I would have to say if someone wants an Amiga Guide for the textures, they make it themselves...I was planing to send them mine to see if they may make it part of the yearly upgrade disks or available to users of Amigas. But I kind of dought they will as this would be addmiting that something was wrong with the way they distributed there docs, and would be worthless for PC users, as well as take up room on the disk, a total of 39836k when LHA'ed. So Don't expect any word from me any time soon... But if I do here from them on the matter I will let it be known..Im willing to give it up for nothing to Impulse if they want it..and think it would help many users.. > > Should Randy come back with a possitive response from Impulse, then I will > be uploading them ASAP. Well, I'll send it to Impulse, but if I here nothing you will here nothing.. =RRW= +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #7 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: OLDA in preferences Date: Mon, 5 Sep 94 11:39:18 +0100 From: milan@valkieser.nl (Milan Polle) >The closest I could come to explaining the two regesters would be that >the EDLE seams to control the amount of color added and the ARCC seams to >adjust the distance of pixels used to create the effect. Hi all, I think the EDLE (Edge Level) is the difference-treshold between adjacent pixels that has to be exceeded before antialiasing kicks in. As for the ARCC (amount of rays per whatever) stands for the amount of rays used per pixel to compute the anti-aliasing value (each ray slightly offset from the other). The old antialiasing method probably used some kind of convolve filter system and this could be why it didn't look very good. Just my view of the world ofcourse :) Let your Imagination run wild, Milan +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #8 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Antenna dishes Date: Mon, 05 Sep 94 15:55:35 CET From: cjo >> Hi all, I'm having problems modeling a dish-shaped antenna dish. Any >> suggestions? >Add and axis, select it then press R/a_9 to go into Add lines, set lock >points and Add the first point benieth the axis,. Now unselect Lock >points and draw click the line into half the shape of a cut dish.. Press >R/a_1 and then R/a_E for the Extrude requester, Now select Sweep and set >the number of sections to 24, click OK... Theres the Dish, you could >probably make the rest of the shapes using the same method.. But it >depends on what you want.. >> I also need to add a wire mesh to the dish. Should I use a transparency >> map so the background shows throuh the grid or perpendicular grid >> textures on a transparent object? >Well, I personally would use a brush wrap as I could customize it to my >needs. >RRW I've made a couple of satellite-dishes myself. But i did it a little bit differently. 1. Create a cone (ADD PRIMITIVE CONE) with (say) 12 vertical sections. 2. Make it flat by setting the y-size =0 (you now have a circle). 3. Conform the circle to a sphere (you'll have to experiment a little with the two parameters to get it right). 4. Size the dish to your own preferences. Perhaps you would like it to be elliptic :-) 5. If you want the dish to have depth you'll just have to EXTRUDE it. 6. If you want the front and the back to have different attribute-settings you just pick all the faces on the back (or the front, that is your own choice) by PICK RANGE and FRACTURE them from the rest of the antenna. (I did this to make the front white and the back gold-colored as this is rather usual for antennas on communication satellites.) Hope this will help! ----------------------------------------------------------------- | Conny Joensson | Swedish Space Corp. Esrange | | Kiruna | Satellite operations - Telecom Div. | | Sweden | cjo@smtpgw.esrange.ssc.se | ----------------------------------------------------------------- +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #9 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Antenna dishes Date: Mon, 05 Sep 94 15:55:35 CET From: cjo >> Hi all, I'm having problems modeling a dish-shaped antenna dish. Any >> suggestions? >Add and axis, select it then press R/a_9 to go into Add lines, set lock >points and Add the first point benieth the axis,. Now unselect Lock >points and draw click the line into half the shape of a cut dish.. Press >R/a_1 and then R/a_E for the Extrude requester, Now select Sweep and set >the number of sections to 24, click OK... Theres the Dish, you could >probably make the rest of the shapes using the same method.. But it >depends on what you want.. >> I also need to add a wire mesh to the dish. Should I use a transparency >> map so the background shows throuh the grid or perpendicular grid >> textures on a transparent object? >Well, I personally would use a brush wrap as I could customize it to my >needs. >RRW I've made a couple of satellite-dishes myself. But i did it a little bit differently. 1. Create a cone (ADD PRIMITIVE CONE) with (say) 12 vertical sections. 2. Make it flat by setting the y-size =0 (you now have a circle). 3. Conform the circle to a sphere (you'll have to experiment a little with the two parameters to get it right). 4. Size the dish to your own preferences. Perhaps you would like it to be elliptic :-) 5. If you want the dish to have depth you'll just have to EXTRUDE it. 6. If you want the front and the back to have different attribute-settings you just pick all the faces on the back (or the front, that is your own choice) by PICK RANGE and FRACTURE them from the rest of the antenna. (I did this to make the front white and the back gold-colored as this is rather usual for antennas on communication satellites.) Hope this will help! ----------------------------------------------------------------- | Conny Joensson | Swedish Space Corp. Esrange | | Kiruna | Satellite operations - Telecom Div. | | Sweden | cjo@smtpgw.esrange.ssc.se | ----------------------------------------------------------------- +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #10 ***************************************:-) Subject: Essence3 ? Date: Mon, 5 Sep 94 17:26:41 METDST From: qis@rz.uni-jena.de (Michael Steiner) Hi ! I have heard that Essence3 is available now. Now my question: Is Forge a part of Essence3 automatically? Michael Steiner -- +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #11 ***************************************:-) Subject: GigaMem&Imagine Date: Mon, 5 Sep 94 17:24:25 METDST From: qis@rz.uni-jena.de (Michael Steiner) Hi Bill ! Thanks for your Tips with GigaMem, You did it the same way like I did hundred times before but I always closed the prefs window, but even now (after your help) Gigamem does not work. :-( Imagine shows that I should have 20 MB of memory but when I try to use them the computer crashes or a window (out of memory) appears. I would be very glad if you could tell me your exact configuration. What I want to know are your settings in - attribute, mask, minsize, buffer memory and chache memory. It could also be a great help when you tell me if you use Imagine as an new program or an new task. I only tried to use Imagine, but may be it should be an new task? Thanks. Michael Steiner qis@rz.uni-jena.de -- +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #12 ***************************************:-) Subject: Imagine-Objects on CD Date: Mon, 5 Sep 94 17:37:40 METDST From: qis@rz.uni-jena.de (Michael Steiner) Hi ! There are 2 new CDs available from CVS and TGV (two German producers). On these 2 CDs are 500 attributes, lots of brushmaps and many Postscriptfonts for Imagine. Of course there are also lots of objects. All in all the CDs are great. Sorry, but may be that they are only available in Germany, but at least you should try to get them because they are worth it. The CDs are called "Amiga Raytracing 1" and "Amiga Raytracing 2". The objects are in 8 formats (Imagine, Lightwave, Real3D2, Reflections2.x, Maxon Cinema 4D, Sculpt, DXF and Caligari) so the CDs are not only for Imagine Users. And the best (or not ? :-))) ) some objects are from me. These are: Armbanduhr, fighter, city and some more ... Michael Steiner qis@rz.uni-jena.de -- +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #13 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: ver 3.1 Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 09:51:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Gerard Menendez On Mon, 5 Sep 1994, MiKE wrote: > Hi all, > Anyone seen hide or hair of the 3.1 "upgrade"? (should read "bug-fix" :( ) > I'm thinking of buying the 4 upgrades for $100 scheme, and wished to know > whether now is a good time to start. I haven't. I purchased the constant upgrade program a day or two after an announcement was posted here. The person on the phone seemed to say that they would send it in a few days. I recieved a brochure a few days later and wonder if that was what he meant would be sent. I'm sure it will show up, but probably not when they say it will. It won't have all the promised features, but it will be worth the money. Gerard P.S. IM3.1 seemed to have enough features to count as more than a bug fix. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #14 ***************************************:-) Subject: Essence3 ? Date: Mon, 5 Sep 94 10:18:00 PDT From: KEN_ROBERTSON@robelle.com Michael Steiner wrote: >Now my question: Is Forge a part of Essence3 automatically? No, you must purchase Forge separately. But at $29, there's no big deal! BTW, I ordered Forge more than three weeks ago, and it has not yet been delivered. I called APEX last Thursday and Friday, but I only listened to an answering machine. Hmmmm. Hope they're just on vacation. (Today is Monday for me, and I live in BC, Canada. Max Mail Time should be 7 to 10 days, typically 3 or 4!) \KenR +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #15 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: ver 3.1 (fwd) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 23:32:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Gerard Menendez Hi All, Here's a message from Mike H. re 3.1. I'm reposting in it's entirety to avoid misquotiing. P.S. Note the time, guess we all work late. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 05 Sep 94 21:40:36 EDT From: Mike Halvorson <76004.1767@compuserve.com> To: Gerard Menendez Subject: Re: ver 3.1 Gerard We will be shipping Imagine 3.1 from the constant update service program on Friday of this coming week, I think that date is September 9th, and as the posting here and on CIS states, all the promised features will be in the code. If you are speaking of something else please let me know. We are a bit behind about 2 weeks behind to be exact, not tooo bad when you get a chance to see what we have done. Mike PS: Please repost this if you feel so inclined. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #16 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: OLDA in preferences Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 00:34:09 -0700 (PDT) From: "Randy R. Wall" > >The closest I could come to explaining the two regesters would be that > >the EDLE seams to control the amount of color added and the ARCC seams to > >adjust the distance of pixels used to create the effect. > > I think the EDLE (Edge Level) is the difference-treshold between adjacent > pixels that has to be exceeded before antialiasing kicks in. > As for the ARCC (amount of rays per whatever) stands for the amount of rays us ed > per pixel to compute the anti-aliasing value (each ray slightly offset from th e > other). The old antialiasing method probably used some kind of convolve filter > system and this could be why it didn't look very good. > Just my view of the world ofcourse :) Well, thanks for the technical info on it, but I was just giving my opinion on what they seam to actually effect on an image or edge. Not while in the rendering engine, or how they actually work. Just thought I'de clear this up, as I was only trying to help those who may have no idea what they do, or the effect these setting can cause on an image.. =RRW= +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #17 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: 3.1 upgrade coming Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 08:49:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Cliff Lee On Tue, 6 Sep 1994, gregory denby wrote: > Is it very awkward to switch between the bare config Imagine requires > and say (icky icky) Windoze? No problem. DOS 5.0 and above has multiple config/autoexec's built into it. So you can boot to an option screen. Each entry can be optimized for whatever program you choose to run. To find out more about this, type HELP CONFIG to review options for your config.sys file. The multiple configuration option will be on that screen somewhere. With that said, you should be able to run Imagine with the same configuration as Windows. The key here is to avoid using EXPANDED memory managers. Since Windows has no use for expanded memory, there is little need to use it (possible exception would be to optimize device drivers if you have a lot of them...). Which is fine with Imagine since it barfs in a particularly ugly manner when expanded memory managers are present. Cliff Lee cel@tenet.edu "You can always make up a class, You can never make up a party!" +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #18 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: 3.1 upgrade coming Date: Tue, 6 Sep 94 10:11:45 EDT From: joec@ensoniq.com (Joe Cotellese) >I have a question to the ImaginePC owners. Since my main machine appears >to be quite messed, I suppose I may be buying a PC in awhile. Is it very >awkward to switch between the bare config Imagine requires and say (icky >icky) Windoze? As you may infer, my main machine is Amiga. > >Back to tracing, > >Greg Denby Greg, Using DOS 6.2 you can have a boot menu that will allow you to boot with multiple configurations. I have found this to be the best way to deal with Imagine and Windows. The only problems I have are that Imagine can't use a DPMI host. And also that I can run it under NT or OS/2. I REALLY miss multi-tasking and would be more than happy to sacrifice some rendering time for the ability to do other things. I'm using a Pentium so any loss in rendering time is still going to be significantly faster than my 030 based Amiga. Joe Cotellese +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #19 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: 3.1 upgrade coming Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 10:03:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Ed Totman On Tue, 6 Sep 1994, gregory denby wrote: > I have a question to the ImaginePC owners. Since my main machine appears > to be quite messed, I suppose I may be buying a PC in awhile. Is it very > awkward to switch between the bare config Imagine requires and say (icky > icky) Windoze? As you may infer, my main machine is Amiga. > I use a 486-66 with 20 mb ram and a PAR board. I run Imagine, windoze, and the PAR without rebooting. Also run the cdrom changer as a tsr to listen to music while I animate. The PC doesn't really multitask like the Amiga, but it does run Imagine faster on the 486 compared to the 030, in my experience. Ed Totman etotman@gort.ucsd.edu +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #20 ***************************************:-) Subject: Atts info Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 20:47:48 -0800 (PDT) From: Scott Lundholm Hi All, Just a short note to diseminate some information about the Attribute file that has been talked so much about lately. The file was sent to me by Soren Wind for uploading to wuarchive.wustl.edu, and was originaly three seperate files (atts-1.lha, atts-2.lha and atts-3.lha). These three files are still on wustl, under gfx/3d. I have just looked through all three of the files and have not found any Essence textures. There are some of the attributes that do, however, require Essence. Many of these attribute files are also not plain attribute files, but are objects with the attribute's already set. I did find in the brick & wood dir's several files that may be copywritted. These files are: brick1master.att, brick2master.att, brick3master.att and woodmater.att (If I remeber the exact spelling of the attributes). These files, if memory serves me correctly belong to a set of disks called "Surface Master", with a second set of disks called "Map Master". I do not remember the publisher of these two set's of disks, but they were comercial products. I do not know how to go about getting uploads removed from wustl, but if someone would E-Mail the info, I will have the files removed and replace them with files that have the Surface Master attribute files removed. I now return you to your regularly scheduled bit stream. Scott Lundholm *----------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Amiga 500/030 at 38Mhz w/68882 at | Email scottie@sr.hp.com | | 50Mhz, 8Meg of 32-bit RAM, Bodega | N6GMJ | | Bay w/105M,450M, & 1G Hard Drives,|HAM radio operator, Electronics junkie, | | HP PaintJet, 16" HP Programmable |Computer Nerd, 3D Rendering Enthusiast, | | Multisynch w/Retina 24bit card. | and graphics fanatic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | *----------------------------------------------------------------------------* +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #21 ***************************************:-) Subject: Signing Freeware Objects Date: Tue, 6 Sep 94 21:41:00 PDT From: KEN_ROBERTSON@robelle.com I just thought of a neat-o way to sign free-ware objects! Besides creating your name (or logo or whatever) without faces, join it to the inside of the object somewhere so that it is difficult, if not downright impossible, to remove. It won't affect the trace in any way (you wouldn't want it to). The placement of the signature should be such it can be seen clearly in wireframe, but not when traced. Hmmmm.... The problem with shareware objects is that when someone uses them in a prominent animation, it is difficult to get credit. After all, the end-user i.e. purchaser or funder of the anim doesn't care where the CGI objects came from - just that they're there! HOWEVER: Placing your objects in an LHA file on aminet with a description and a blurb stating "Can not be used without consent of the author for purposes of getting rich blah blah blah" would provide you with copyright protection. In essence, uploading the objects to Aminet is like "publishing" your objects. "OOOOOF!" \KenR ----------------------------------------------------------------------- If I had a dollar for everytime I heard that line... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #22 ***************************************:-) Subject: Imagine for SGI Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 18:28:42 +1000 From: D.Haines@unsw.edu.au Howdy heres my first post. Is there a version of Imagine for SGI coming in the near future? Also,is there a version for the Pentium. I noticed that some people seem to have imagine running on Pentium machines but is there a speed up, or will it require a Pentium specific version. The Amiga is my machine of choice, but I also have access to an Indigo and quite frankly I prefer working with imagine rather than ALIAS, although I am not a seasoned Alias user. David Haines College of Fine Arts Phone: +61 +2 +339-9555 Fax: +61 +2 +339-9506 +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #23 ***************************************:-) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 12:03:28 +1000 From: imagine-relay@email.sp.paramax.com > > >The closest I could come to explaining the two regesters would be that > > >the EDLE seams to control the amount of color added and the ARCC seams to > > >adjust the distance of pixels used to create the effect. > > > > I think the EDLE (Edge Level) is the difference-treshold between adjacent > > pixels that has to be exceeded before antialiasing kicks in. > > As for the ARCC (amount of rays per whatever) stands for the amount of rays used > > per pixel to compute the anti-aliasing value (each ray slightly offset from the > > other). The old antialiasing method probably used some kind of convolve filt er > > system and this could be why it didn't look very good. > > Just my view of the world ofcourse :) > > Well, thanks for the technical info on it, but I was just giving my > opinion on what they seam to actually effect on an image or edge. Not > while in the rendering engine, or how they actually work. > > Just thought I'de clear this up, as I was only trying to help those who > may have no idea what they do, or the effect these setting can cause > on an image.. > > =RRW= Well, sorry, but I just thought explaining what effects the variables have, woul d make setting them a bit easier. But then again maybe my explanation is a bit too complicated. Milan +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #24 ***************************************:-) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 12:54:19 +1000 From: imagine-relay@email.sp.paramax.com Hi everyone, Thanks for your help with the Nebula texture problem I was having. I tried the various help that everyone sent and still didn't get the object to display the effect properly. I eneded up using the ESSENCE I fractalfilter on a fog object. This worked sort of how I envisaged it but I still don't understand why Nebula barfed on me. I'm going to try all of the settings on a default sphere now and work from there. Thanks again everyone. PS Randy R Wall if your listening, I tried to post you privately but my mail kept bouncing back. I'll keep trying as I've some thingfs to chat about. On another note, this might be old news but did anyone notice the setting STGF - default staging file name. You just give it the path of a default staging file and every time you start a new project you get what you've setup. Rather neat and it's not documented in the manual that I can find. And on another note :) I am running an Amiga 4000 /030 on a 1950 and when I display a render in DBLPAL everything is perfect. If I use a normal PAL screen, wherever colour 0 is turns out to be a dark grey. The pallette requester tells me that it is at 0. When my 1084s is connected the same PAL screen is black on colour 0. Then when I plug in a Neriki Genlock, it goes back to dark grey. Is this crazy or what. anway sorry to rattle on so much. If anyone has any ideas about any of this, please mail me privately so we don't take up the bandwidth. See ya David Shaw Pixel Byte GFX dshaw@ozspace.brisnet.org.au +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #25 ***************************************:-) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 13:46:58 +1000 From: imagine-relay@email.sp.paramax.com Hi, I was wondering if you all know of any _GOOD_ cdrom's out there with Imagine related stuff that I might look for at the upcoming show here. Maybe some good brushmap CD's, fonts,... etc., even meshes! I have PC Version2.0 of Imagine. Thanks, Ed /****************************************************************************/ /* Ed Phillips flaregun@strauss.udel.edu University of Delaware */ /* Jr Systems Programmer (302) 831-6082 IT/Network and Systems Services */ /****************************************************************************/ +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #26 ***************************************:-) Subject: Technical Answers Date: Wed, 7 Sep 94 23:10:11 EDT From: mtucibat@cris.com (Mike Tucibat) Randy and Milan discuss: M> > Well, thanks for the technical info on it, but I was just giving my M> > opinion on what they seam to actually effect on an image or edge. Not M> > while in the rendering engine, or how they actually work. M> > M> > Just thought I'de clear this up, as I was only trying to help those who M> > may have no idea what they do, or the effect these setting can cause M> > on an image.. M> > M> > =RRW= M> M> Well, sorry, but I just thought explaining what effects the variables M> have, would M> make setting them a bit easier. But then again maybe my explanation is a M> bit too M> complicated. M> M> Milan ========================== Hey-- I don't think you can be too complex, or too basic. Users at many different levels are on this list, and one of the many cool things about it is that answers come from many different perspectives and levels of understanding. If an answer is more than a particular user wanted to know, it will undoubtedly be valuable for someone else reading it. I like it all! :) And while I'm here, I have a neat little program that I got off some cover disk a long time ago, called "fr", that makes 3D trees that can be converted to Imagine objects. It came with source code, so I'm thinking it might be OK to share. I'd like to, if it wouldn't be illegal. Anybody know? L8R -mikeT * Offline Orbit 0.70b * ...Sleep is a poor substitute for Raytracing... +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #27 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Imagine for SGI Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 22:43:48 -0700 (PDT) From: "Randy R. Wall" > Is there a version of Imagine for SGI coming in the near future? I have heard rumors of this coming true, but then heard that Impulse is going for the Mac version first. So it maybe a while..nothing official yet that I have heard.. =RRW= +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #28 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: OLDA in preferences Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 23:10:17 -0700 (PDT) From: "Randy R. Wall" > > Well, thanks for the technical info on it, but I was just giving my > > opinion on what they seam to actually effect on an image or edge. Not > > while in the rendering engine, or how they actually work. > > > > Just thought I'de clear this up, as I was only trying to help those who > > may have no idea what they do, or the effect these setting can cause > > on an image.. > > > > =RRW= > > Well, sorry, but I just thought explaining what effects the variables have, > would make setting them a bit easier. But then again maybe my explanation > is a bit too > complicated. > > Milan I think you took my reply the wrong way..I thanked you for the technical info, but was only stating why I did not give it in such a manner..So there is no need to be sorry..I am sure there are many others who would liked to have had more info, and you have abliged them.. I'm sorry if I some how offended you. I was not meaning to.. And no it is not to complicated, at least not for me..but might be for some newer users. But could be helpful to more advanced users, so I welcome your additional input...Hope this clears it up? =RRW= +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #29 ***************************************:-) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 04:40:33 +1000 From: imagine-relay@email.sp.paramax.com Dear All. I'm having trouble with th fog attributes in Imagine 3.0 - for some reason I get the feeling that the manual isn't quite saying everything that I need to know .... :) I want to have a layer of fog - something like you see in cheap sci fi which is dense at the bottom and gradually thins out to transparency at the top. I guess that the FogTop texture is the best one to use, I have applied a Fog attribute to an extruded plane to give a rectilinear volume of fog, but I just can't seem to get a nice smooth effect. So can anyone give me some suggestions on suitable settings for the effect I want ? (Preferably *NOT* in the language that the texture is described in in the Imagine 3.0 distribution) Email me if this is old hat / really dumb etc. Thanks very much in adavance. Mike. You can reach Mike Richards at the following /@\ \|/ address ... (if you're that desperate). `-\ \ ______ - 0 - \ \/ ` / \ /|\ _ mhr@aber.ac.uk \_i / \ |\____// | |==| |=----/ ---- Why not drop me a line ...? -------------------hn/--hn/----------- +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #30 ***************************************:-) Subject: trees Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 18:44:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Edwin Phillips Hi, On the subject of trees... someone posted/pointed to a small set of C code to generate trees on the Rayshade mailing list. The code generates "fractal trees" as input files to rayshade. It is a .shar (shell archive) file, which I could email to anyone who's interested. It might not be useful for Imagine directly, but the code could very well be modified to make it useful for Imagine (I don't know of any Rayshade<-->Imagine converter, yet). Ed /****************************************************************************/ /* Ed Phillips flaregun@strauss.udel.edu University of Delaware */ /* Jr Systems Programmer (302) 831-6082 IT/Network and Systems Services */ /****************************************************************************/ +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #31 ***************************************:-) Subject: Jupiter Crash Animation and the BBC Date: Thu, 8 Sep 94 18:11:27 MST From: spencer@lowell.edu (John R. Spencer) More miscellaneous comments on that Imagine comet crash animation: The BBC in London ended up using my Imagine Jupiter/Comet crash animation for their news broadcasts, like many other networks, and they also used a second animation that used a combination of Imagine and Vistapro, which showed the flashes on Jupiter lighting up a volcano on the nightside of Io. This second animation they adapted to produce their own "virtual reality" spot which had the news reader (David Simmons???) and their science correspondent actually standing on the surface of Io watching the flashes on Jupiter. Anyway, as a result of my help with this enterprise I got a chance to tour the BBC Television Center in London on a recent visit to the UK. I got a look in the room where they do the computer graphics for the TV News, and the first thing I saw was someone working in the Detail Editor of Imagine on an A2000, putting a logo or something together. They use a lot of high-end graphics software and hardware as well, but it sure was nice to see Imagine being used in such exalted surroundings. In reply to Ted Stethem, the glow and fade of the impact sites as they rotated around Jupiter was done with the "Radial" texture morphing between different colors, and the transparency morphing up to 100% as the site faded. Of course, the way the impacts turned out in real life the sites never really faded away... The "lightbeams" shooting off the rotating comet nucleus in the foreground were supposed to be jets of dust being emitted by the nucleus, but they did end up looking more like lightbeams. One of the less successful aspects of the animation... John. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #32 ***************************************:-) Subject: Help with fur or hair... Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 23:43:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Bush Doktor Has anyone been able to recreate fur or hair in imagine? I'm trying to make a mane for a lion. I've got everything else done, but the mane is a killer. Thanks +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #33 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Using Fog Objects... Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 06:30:38 -0500 From: gregory denby Michael Richards writes, >I'm having trouble with the fog attributes... & >I guess that the FogTop texture is the best one to use, Well, my experience with the FogTop is that its probably not quite what you want, which I assume is a rather smooth fade away, or perhaps slightly billowy. FogTop appears to giva a rather grainy fade, more like a particle effect. Altho I've spent way too much time playing with textures, I can't think of any right off hand that will give the effect you want unless you use an Essence texture. There are several ways to use transition textures for nice fade aways. However, if you don't happen to have the Essence collection... Try using a plane with a transparency map placed over it. Place this infront of your camera. The down side of this is increased rendering time :-(. Or, make a single plane, not extruded, set it to an appropriate fog length and rotate it so that its top is farther away from the camera. That way the amount of fog applied near the top of the scene will be less than at the bot tom. As a general bit of advice, in order to check out texture performance, I make a quarter screen anim of 16-24 frames during which I morph a texture parameter (or two). This is the quickest way I've found to get a handle on how a texture works. Good Luck Greg Denby gdenby@twain.helios.nd.edu "Let's watch Big Brother" +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #34 ***************************************:-) Subject: SIMILAR-PRESS RE Date: Thu, 08 Sep 94 22:48:35 -0300 From: greg.tsadilas@hofbbs.com The following is Press Release from Glenn Lewis. It should be of interest to anyone who uses Imagine, especially those who use data sets such as Tim Wilson's HUMANOID dataset. -GreG ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Announcing "Similar" Copyright 1994 by Glenn M. Lewis Version 1.0 - 9/94 Similar is a program that operates either on Imagine object files or Envisage object files. (Note, however, that it is not possible to work on *both* IOB and SCE files during the same execution!) It runs from the command line and comes compiled for either the Amiga or the PC. Please specify which you want when you order or I will send you the PC version! Similar takes as input 3 object files and outputs a new object. All objects must have the same topology. In other words, all objects must be derived from the same object and must have the same number of points, edges, and faces. This is the same restriction that Imagine places on objects that are to be morphed. In a nutshell, Similar will read the first two objects, compare the differences in point (vertex) placement, and then apply these differences to the third object in order to create the output object. For example, let's say you have purchased Tim Wilson's excellent Humanoid package. You copy the strong man's face to a new face object, and called it "Charley". You go into your favorite modeling editor, and start modifying the face to give you harley's unique facial features, including moving points around, changing colors, applying image maps, etc. Now let's say that you wish to make an animation using Charley, and you would like to make him speak as well as get angry and smile, etc. Do you want to go through and modify each of the expressions from Tim's Humanoid package to convert each one of them into Charley? Of course not! Simply run "similar" over each set of expressions from the strong man, and apply those changes to Charley. Voila! You now have a whole new set of morphable objects that all have Charley's unique facial characteristics that you can use in an animation. Here is an example PC batch file containing the commands you would perform, courtesy of Doug Kelly (dakelly@bga.com) who also wrote two fantastic articles in "3D Artist" (Issue #17) about the process. Thanks, Doug! ************************************************************************** REM The following batch file converts all the MANSTRNG head targets to REM Charley head targets. REM CONVERTING HUMANOID HEADS TO CHARLEY PATTERN REM IMPORTANT! IMPORTANT! IMPORTANT! IMPORTANT! IMPORTANT! IMPORTANT! REM REM Make sure that both "similar.exe" and "dos4gw.exe" are in your PATH! REM REM IMPORTANT! IMPORTANT! IMPORTANT! IMPORTANT! IMPORTANT! IMPORTANT! cd c:\humanoid\manstrng\heads\emotions copy c:\humanoid\manstrng\heads\normal.iob copy c:\humanoid\manstrng\heads\charley.iob similar.exe normal.iob fear.iob charley.iob charfear.iob similar.exe normal.iob anger.iob charley.iob charangr.iob similar.exe normal.iob stern.iob charley.iob charstrn.iob similar.exe normal.iob surprise.iob charley.iob charsurp.iob similar.exe normal.iob sadness.iob charley.iob charsad.iob similar.exe normal.iob smile.iob charley.iob charsmil.iob similar.exe normal.iob grin.iob charley.iob chargrin.iob similar.exe normal.iob crying.iob charley.iob charcryg.iob del normal.iob del charley.iob cd c:\humanoid\manstrng\heads\phonemes similar.exe normal.iob 1closed.iob charley.iob charclos.iob similar.exe normal.iob 2parted.iob charley.iob charpart.iob similar.exe normal.iob 3prtopen.iob charley.iob charprto.iob similar.exe normal.iob 4open.iob charley.iob charopen.iob similar.exe normal.iob 5wide.iob charley.iob charwide.iob similar.exe normal.iob 6gape.iob charley.iob chargape.iob similar.exe normal.iob 7pucker.iob charley.iob charpuck.iob del normal.iob del charley.iob cd \ REM ALL DONE. HAVE FUN! ************************************************************************** Similar can also be used for "dressing" the humanoid torsos. You simply change one of the torsos to look like a shirt, and then you can modify all of the other torsos to have shirts as well, since Tim based all the torsos on the sme object. Doug found another use recently: I created a flag, and then modified it so that it was "drooping" as if there was no wind. I morphed between the two. Later on, I decided to glue an image map to its surface. Normally, I would have had to hand-modify the object *again* (after I applied the glued image map) so that the glue would stick and modify the image map in the new "droopy" position. Doug told me to use "similar" to modify the glued-straight-flag into a new handy-dandyglued-drooped-flag... and it worked! Very handy. OK, so how to you get "similar"? Send a check for $20 US dollars (plus $5 if you live overseas to cover shipping) to: Glenn M. Lewis (glewis@pcocd2.intel.com or glewis@netcom.com) 8341 Olive Hill Court Fair Oaks, CA 95628 USA REMEMBER to ask for the PC or Amiga version, please! Also, I will send 3.5" disks if not otherwise specified. As a bonus for your order, I will send you "emph" (short for "Emphasize") that reads in two objects (ObjA and ObjB) and emphasizes the differences between the two by a user-supplied factor, and writes out a new object based on ObjA. This is great for blowing facial features out of proportion for some really weird effects. It also makes it extremely convenient to make slight modifications to objects. For example, if you want to create "Charley" such that he has more pronounced cheek-bones, a slightly larger nose, and more protruding eyebrows, you could simply make a grossly different face by pulling (in your modeler) on the cheeks, nose, and eyebrows way far out, as if spikes are sticking out of the head. Then, simply tone down the differences using "emph" and a difference factor of less than one, say 0.1, for example. Voila! You have Charley, whose facial features are slightly different from the "normal" man, but who is obviously a different person. Usage for "emph" is: emph [scale_factor] ObjA ObjB NewObj "Similar" and "Emph" are Copyright 1994 by Glenn M. Lewis, All Rights Reserved. They are NOT freely distributable. WARNING: Executables are embedded with a seria number that I keep a database of so that I can identify who is pirating and take appropriate action. If you do not like this, do not order the programs from me. The embedded serial numbers have no affect on the execution of the program and are there only for my identification purposes. Free technical support to registered owners will be provided via e-mail. If you have problems with Similar or Emph, please compress (or LHA or ZIP) the objects you are working on, uuencode it an e-mail to me (see above) and describe the problem. I will either find a bug in my programs and fix them and send you an update, or will dump the objects out and show you that they do not have identical topologies, and remind you that Similar and Emph must be used on objects that have identical topologies. :-) That is, all points, edges, and faces must have the same number and must be in the same order within the objects. As an added bonus, I will include my public domain "melt" program that appeared as the lead article in the July 1994 annual Computer Graphics issue of Dr. Dobbs Journal. Usage for "melt" is: melt [number_of_frames] inObject outfile_root Installation instructions for PC: When you receive the diskette, copy the following files to some directory that is in your "PATH" (defined in your autoexec.bat). To see your current path, simply type "path". The files are: similar.exe, emph.exe, melt.exe, and dos4gw.exe Installation instructions for the Amiga: When you receive the diskette, copy the following files to some directory that is in your shell's path: similar, emph, and melt That's it! Enjoy! -- Glenn Lewis ---------------------------------------------------------------------- +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #35 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Help with fur or hair... Date: Sat, 10 Sep 1994 00:35:08 +1200 (NZST) From: Michael Hazlett On Thu, 8 Sep 1994, Bush Doktor wrote: > > Has anyone been able to recreate fur or hair in imagine? I'm > trying to make a mane for a lion. I've got everything else done, > but the mane is a killer. > Mate if you can find out how to do hair WOW! I mean I got Humanoid recently and I expected hair but...no so if you figure it out give us a yell :) MH +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #36 ***************************************:-) Subject: Suns Date: Sat, 10 Sep 1994 01:02:03 +1200 (NZST) From: Michael Hazlett Guys/gals do any of you have any idea how I can achieve the look of a sun ie: a lenflare but one that looks like a sun...also the kind that the vehicles have on Seaquest DSV ...I would appreciate lenflare values or a complete tutorial :) MH +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #37 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Help with fur or hair... Date: Fri, 09 Sep 1994 11:58:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike McCool Hey Bush, My attempts at realistic tree-foliage actually yielded pretty neat looking 'fur.' I started out with a sphere, yanked it's points all around to give it the shape of a 3D treetop, then experimented with various degrees of fog, in the attributes requestor. My tree foliage came out looking more like smoke. As one of the trees I was trying to produce was a 'smoke tree,' this was quite acceptible. Seems like this would be great for your lion's mane. You'd get a sort of fluffed-out, afro-looking mane. On Thu, 8 Sep 1994, Bush Doktor wrote: > > Has anyone been able to recreate fur or hair in imagine? I'm > trying to make a mane for a lion. I've got everything else done, > but the mane is a killer. > > Thanks > > > +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #38 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Help with fur or hair... Date: Sat, 10 Sep 1994 09:16:56 +1200 (NZST) From: Michael Hazlett On Fri, 9 Sep 1994 midgard@met.com wrote: > > IT>On Thu, 8 Sep 1994, Bush Doktor wrote: > > If you also have Access to Lightwave you could try making the Hair > there, make the Basic shape then use the "Jitterize" tool to get decent > looking Hair I've been looking at moving to Lightwave..but I'll stick with Imagine for now and see if Impulse bring out everything they promised ie: Sound etc... Do you know of a good way to model hair in Imagine (I'm forms editor illiterate:) MH +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #39 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Help with fur or hair... Date: Fri, 09 Sep 1994 21:41:18 -0400 (EDT) From: CHIRON1@delphi.com There are some JPEG files over on Compuserve that feature mythological creatures and a male jogger. I have yet to ask the renderer to confirm this, but my suspicion is that they are image maps. Can you imagine how time (rendering *and* mdeling time) consuming this would be to create individual hairs? And memory constraints!! I will be firing off a letter this weekend, and when I get an answer I will post it, but I am fairly certain that this is the only sane way! (FYI - the mythological characters are a centaur, satyr and minotaur. Pretty good looking, too! ***** Paul ***** CHIRON1@delphi.com Windows 3.0 - From the same people that brought you EDLIN. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #40 ***************************************:-) Subject: RE: SAVING MONEY ON PER-MADE 3D Date: Fri, 9 Sep 94 21:02:05 PDT From: ua197@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (Christopher Stewart) >>Or if you don't have the CD-ROM and would like to get it you can call >>1800-328-2738. The CD is FREE from VIEWPOINT DATALABS but I'm sorry the >>data is not. >>* Distribution of full access key expires on Sep.30 1994 ...so act fast or >>lose out >>** Offer only valid in NEW YORK CITY >So basically you are saying that we send you 200 dollars and you give us a >pirated code? >Doesn't sound to kosher to me. > >Joe Cotellese I contacted America Online and this gentleman's usenet has been pulled. I hope Viewpoint nails 'em too. If this ever happens (a message you object to, that is) send a reply to the same address but substitute "postmaster" for the users name. It'll reach the site's administrator. Make sure to explain WHY the post is offensive or illeagal as some don't get it ;-). On Imagine related topics , I SAW THE LIGHT! I finally grasped an understanding of how bones work and have animated a complete figure with shoulder shrugs, the works. It's kind of hard to explain the concept but I think I like it! With that, a couple of deformations and Eadweard, I'm off and running . As the manual says, experiment! Christopher -- "I wish there was a knob on the TV ua197@freenet.victoria.bc.ca to turn up the intelligence. cs833@cleveland.freenet.edu There's a knob called `brightness', Christopher Stewart but it doesn't work." -- Gallagher Animation/Graphic Arts/Telecomm +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #41 ***************************************:-) Subject: animated brushmap trouble Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 00:05:43 +0059 (EDT) From: "Mr. Scott Krehbiel; ACS (PC)" Hi everyone I'm having some trouble sticking an animated brushmap on an object in 2.0. I have ten frames, called ptype.0001 thru ptype.0010, and I told the attributes editor to use the brushmap called ptype with a max sequence # of 10. So far, this is what "Understanding Imagine 2.0" says to do. The problem comes when I try to quickrender this from the stage. It says "Unable to load brush dh1:brushes/ptype.0005.0001" It's looking up the correct frame number, then trying to find the right brush, but then it's sticking another .0001 on the end. I tried quickrendering with the Action editor's "# of cycles to perform" set to 1, then tried again with it set to 0, but no change. Anyone know what this extra ".0001" is about?? Thanks for any help offered Scott Krehbiel scott@umbc7.umbc.edu +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #42 ***************************************:-) Subject: RE: SAVING MONEY ON PER-MADE 3D Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 16:41:23 +1200 (NZST) From: Michael Hazlett On Fri, 9 Sep 1994, Christopher Stewart wrote: > On Imagine related topics , I SAW THE LIGHT! I finally grasped > an understanding of how bones work and have animated a complete figure > with shoulder shrugs, the works. It's kind of hard to explain the concept Good one! I did a shark that swims but I don't have a complete understanding of bones...and the manual doesn't tell you much :( MH +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #43 ***************************************:-) Subject: Boons Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 14:28:24 +0200 (METDST) From: Carsten Bach I have used IM3.0 for some time, but the bonnes are still giving me a hard time. Some peopele have been talking about a tutorial for boons. So if anybody has it please mail it to me, or if anybody has a good idea how to get started :) I have tried to understand the manual but either my english is not good enough :( or the manual has an approach that i don not understand :( But i hope that someone can help me :) Arne Voigt Denmark +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #44 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: animated brushmap trouble Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 12:34:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike McCool Hey Scott, Just set up a similar project in good old 2.0, and it did the same thing to me. The glitch seems confined to quickrender mode in the Stage, since it doesn't seem to have any trouble generating the pix in sequence in the Project Editor. Please excuse the simple-mindedness of this suggestion, but it's the only thing I could do to make it quickrender: Rename all the pics in your animated brush pic directory, adding a '.0001' to each one. DOpus makes this easy, with the ole unix asterisk. Then you can rename them again, removing what you added, when you're ready to actually render the project. There are times when you really do need to see a quickrender, to save time, so, when all else fails, try that rename trick. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #45 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: animated brushmap trouble Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 19:52:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Blaquiere Scott, there is a bug in Imagine 2.0 which causes the program to append the brushmap's frame number twice, causing a "file not found" error. This bug occurs when attempting a quickrender in the Stage editor. You can get around it by rendering the frame from the Project editor; the double frame number bug doesn't affect that module. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #46 ***************************************:-) id m0qjx3R-0006MJC; Sun, 11 Sep 94 18:07 EDT Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 18:07:20 +0100 From: Mark Jones Subject: Re: Help with fur or hair... To: Michael Hazlett Cc: Mailing List In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 10 Sep 1994, Michael Hazlett wrote: > > > On Thu, 8 Sep 1994, Bush Doktor wrote: > > > > > Has anyone been able to recreate fur or hair in imagine? I'm > > trying to make a mane for a lion. I've got everything else done, > > but the mane is a killer. > > > > Mate if you can find out how to do hair WOW! I mean I got Humanoid > recently and I expected hair but...no so if you figure it out give us a > yell :) > > MH > > > > First, paint the hair image map using a 24-bit paint package like brilliance, DPaintIV (HAM8), opal paint, etc. Save the image, then create a second map using the image converted to 2 colors. For this image, make sure that the background is completely white, the hair completly black. Then save this image and load the first image into an image processor program, or paint program that allows conversion to negative colors. Do so, and save it as a third image. Using identical coordinates, map image 1 as a color map, image 2 as a filter map, and image 3 as an altitude map. You may play with the Y coordinate on the altitude map (3) to increase/decrease the depth of the hair. Filter maps can be flakey. You may need more than one to make the background truly transparent. At least in version 2.0. If you have the April 1993 issue of Amazing Amiga, there is an article inside detailing the process I've just outlined. In the article, the object was to create realistic grass on a 3-D lanscape in Imagine, and it does appear to work, from the pics provided. It seemed to me that hair would work just the same. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #47 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: animated brushmap trouble Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 22:39:36 +0059 (EDT) From: "Mr. Scott Krehbiel; ACS (PC)" On Sun, 11 Sep 1994, Mike McCool wrote: > Hey Scott, > > Just set up a similar project in good old 2.0, and it did the > same thing to me. The glitch seems confined to quickrender mode in the > Stage, since it doesn't seem to have any trouble generating the pix in > sequence in the Project Editor. > > Please excuse the simple-mindedness of this suggestion, but it's > the only thing I could do to make it quickrender: > > Rename all the pics in your animated brush pic directory, adding > a '.0001' to each one. DOpus makes this easy, with the ole unix asterisk. > Then you can rename them again, removing what you added, when you're > ready to actually render the project. > > There are times when you really do need to see a quickrender, to > save time, so, when all else fails, try that rename trick. > Thanks for the info. You're right, it renders from the Project editor like a charm. Though it's a perfectly rational workaround for this bug, your solution strikes me as kinda funny. (this is the FIRST frame 1. This is the FIRST frame 2. This is the FIRST frame 3.) Man, talk about having to force something to work.. :-) Thanks for the help... now onward to fix my approach to this animation! Scott Krehbiel +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #48 ***************************************:-) Subject: RE: SAVING MONEY ON PER-MADE 3D Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 01:30:59 -0700 (PDT) From: "Randy R. Wall" > I SAW THE LIGHT! I finally grasped > an understanding of how bones work and have animated a complete figure > with shoulder shrugs, the works. It's kind of hard to explain the concept > but I think I like it! > Christopher hehehee! well glad to hear it. Its a very powerful tool and works quite well, once everything is properly setup. I like it too, and can think of some really neat animations I can use it for. =RRW= +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #49 ***************************************:-) Subject: Bump maps on a cylinder. Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 12:55:41 +0100 From: MICHAEL RICHARDS Dear All. From a read of the manual (it had to happen :) ), it seems that I cannot have a repeating bump map pattern around the walls of a cylinder. I am looking to add a series of tiles around the rim of a cylindrical tower, and rather than build a large map (memory is really tight) and trying to scale it to fit, I would rather stamp the same pattern down repeatedly. Am I reading this right and it isn't possible to do this? If it is, has anyone else had the same problem and found a way to get around it ? Email or reply here, thanks in advance. Mike. You can reach Mike Richards at the following /@\ \|/ address ... (if you're that desperate). `-\ \ ______ - 0 - \ \/ ` / \ /|\ _ mhr@aber.ac.uk \_i / \ |\____// | |==| |=----/ ---- Why not drop me a line ...? -------------------hn/--hn/----------- +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #50 ***************************************:-) Subject: Adjusting lights in Amiga v3.0 Date: Sun, 14 Aug 94 11:54:59 GMT From: Steven Cockrill Hi there, I can't make adjustments to beam widths etc. I'm using a point light source set to round beam, but Stage won't let me adjust anything. I could before... have I done something with prefs or presets? 'axes only' in the transformation requester is ghosted I can scale all axes at once (it appears) but not individually. I've tried 'shift' but nothing seems to make any difference to the light lines. Anyone know what I've done or haven't done or where to look? :) thanks, Steve +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #51 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: HELP WITH FUR OR HAIR. Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 22:23:09 -0400 (EDT) From: CHIRON1@delphi.com 12-SEP-1994 16:35:19.34 From: IN%"greg.tsadilas@hofbbs.com" To: IN%"chiron1@delphi.com" Subj: RE: HELP WITH FUR OR HAIR. >> There are some JPEG files over on Compuserve that feature >> mythological creatures and a male jogger. I have yet to ask the renderer to >> confirm this, but my suspicion is that they are image maps. > That's me! > The Jogger uses Image maps. The mythological creatures all use textures...no > image maps. The hair on their heads, is done by applying the WRINKLED > texture. If the Z axis goes through the tops of the head, the settings are > something like z=10, x=.5, y=.5. This will create long but thin wrinkles > that look like clumps of hair strands. The fuzz on the bodies of the > Centaur, Minotaur, and Satyr are done with the FUZZ.ITX. > For a lion...the wrinkled texture would work very well. In my example above, > the Z axis should be rotated so it's almost perpendicular to the orientation > of the mane: ____ | \ y___________\_____z Acutally, should be rotated down from the Y | | \ axis a bit. Play with it. | \_____| | x > Please repost to IML if you like. > -GreG tsadilas I didn't realize until I got offline that GreG had only sent this to me. I am reposting it here for everyone's benefit. ***** Paul ***** CHIRON1@delphi.com Without my ignorance, your knowledge would be meaningless. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #52 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Adjusting lights in Amiga v3.0 Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 23:15:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Blaquiere Are you sure you're on the right frame? In Stage, you must be in an object's keyframe if you want the changes to stick. With the light, you presumably want to set its axes on the frame where it first appears. Oh, and you may want to cale the ocal axes, not world. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #53 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Bump maps on a cylinder. Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 23:21:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Blaquiere Michael, I don't know if it has been cured in 3.0, but yes, previous versions of Imagine would ignore the "repeat" button when the wrap mode was set to anything other than FlatX/FlatZ. A quick solution: build a section of your cylinder, just large enough for _one_ instance of your brush map. Rotate the axes so that the local Y axis is the main axis of the cylinder, then use Replicate (under Amiga-E, or Alt-E for PC owners) to create as many additional copies as needed; enter #copies and appropriate distance to make each copy abutt (sp?) the previous one exactly. The only problem with this is, the seams between objects will show; you may want to select all seam edges and "Make Soft" to ensure Phong shading over the entire object and get rid of the seams. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #54 ***************************************:-) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 13:28:37 +0800 From: Mark Johnson Hi all, Dose anyone have TypeSmith? I thought that if you had TypeSmith, you could use your logo (as a picture) and tack it into typesmith. Then save it out as a postscript font. Thus using it in the spline editor. Anyone? Just a thougth Mark J +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #55 ***************************************:-) Subject: RE: SAVING MONEY ON PER-MADE 3D Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 23:49:10 PDT From: ua197@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (Christopher Stewart) >On Fri, 9 Sep 1994, Christopher Stewart wrote: > >> On Imagine related topics , I SAW THE LIGHT! I finally grasped >> an understanding of how bones work and have animated a complete figure >> with shoulder shrugs, the works. It's kind of hard to explain the concept > >Good one! I did a shark that swims but I don't have a complete >understanding of bones...and the manual doesn't tell you much :( I was just being a goof and not realizing that the overlap (ie: tip to tipall) was the way to limit the bend. I really mangled the first few tries but am getting acceptable results now. Poly counts and object sizes are certainly rising rapidly though, ouch! Christopher -- "I wish there was a knob on the TV ua197@freenet.victoria.bc.ca to turn up the intelligence. cs833@cleveland.freenet.edu There's a knob called `brightness', Christopher Stewart but it doesn't work." -- Gallagher Animation/Graphic Arts/Telecomm +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #56 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Transparent objects Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 19:07:30 +1000 (EST) From: Nikola Vukovljak On Sat, 3 Sep 1994, Mr. Scott Krehbiel; ACS (PC) wrote: > > I forgot to mention in my last message that I'm using 2.0, and > that my problem of transparent objects still showing up happens > in scanline and in trace. They show up as an odd, dingy grey-green > over my grey background. I have all attributes set to the > defaults, except for filter values all at 255. I'd like to make > this thing completely dissapear, and any help would be appreciated. > Make sure that the specularity of the object is at 0. Also, no hardness either. Hope this helps. Nik. nvukovlj@extro.ucc.su.oz.au +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #57 ***************************************:-) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 94 04:22:31 CDT From: @sprill.demon.co.uk:straub@csn.org >From !imagine-relay@email.sp.paramax.com Fri, 26 Aug 94 09:40:56 GMT Return-Path: Return-Path: Date: Thu, 25 Aug 1994 18:09:05 -0600 (MDT) Sender: Roger Straub Reply-To: Roger Straub Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Status: OR From: Steven Cockrill From: Roger Straub To: kwda@cbs.nl Cc: imagine@email.sp.paramax.com Subject: Morph Hi! To morph between two objects with the same number of points and faces, put the first object in frame 1 in Action. Add the second object on frames 2-50 on the same actor bar, and VOILA! A morph! Hope this helps... See ya, Roger +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #58 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Adjusting lights in Amiga v3.0 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 94 13:03:37 GMT From: Steven Cockrill Hi, sorry folks, wasted time and bandwidth, I RTFM and now I understand :) 1. size is _not_ scale 2. size can _only_ be adjusted in the stage transformation requester? Now I've got nice long thin light lines! best wishes, Steve +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #59 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Bump maps on a cylinder. Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 11:09:32 BRA3EST From: "Daniel 'Mega'" Charles wrote > Michael, > > I don't know if it has been cured in 3.0, but yes, previous versions of > Imagine would ignore the "repeat" button when the wrap mode was set to > anything other than FlatX/FlatZ. In the Bible, ie, "Understanding Imagine 2.0" Mr. Worsley says that it's a BUG of Imagine. Day Message: The first thing that a 3D artist says is:"fiat lux" Daniel Bueno Bracher Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro Internet E-mail: mega@lci.ufrj.br +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #60 ***************************************:-) Subject: Black lines on reflective objects. Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 12:51:29 +1000 From: D.Haines@unsw.edu.au Howdy all Has anyone noticed black lines, like a ragged seam appear on reflective objects when using a global map.This happens at certain angles and not always in every frame ? I did see this happen every now and then in 2.0, but it seems to be happening in 3.0 as well.Is there a preferred size for an environment map- I normally use the same size image, as the image size that I am rendering at ie 736 by 566. Also when I run the bugfix Im3fixAm I get a message in the shell which says - couldnt find patch pattern in Imagine .fp. ? Any takers - must say I love 3.0 anyways. See ya David Haines College of Fine Arts Phone: +61 +2 +339-9555 Fax: +61 +2 +339-9506 +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #61 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Black lines on reflective objects. Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 16:46:23 GMT +1200 From: "Paul Batten" > Has anyone noticed black lines, like a ragged seam appear on reflective > objects when using a global map.This happens at certain angles and not > always in every frame ? I did see this happen every now and then in 2.0, > but it seems to be happening in 3.0 as well. Yes, this happened to me as well. I've finally put it down to the way the global map is wrapped around the stage. If the map doesnot wrap smoothly black line(s) appear (in the reflection) where the edges fail to meet ( same as the problem sometimes encounted when wrapping a map around a sphere). I haven't had a chance to find a solution yet... anyone else got a answer ? Cheers Paul. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul Batten Science & Computing Dept. Christchurch Polytechnic battenp@scico1.chchp.ac.nz Christchurch New Zealand TEL +63-3-364-9037 FAX +64-3-364-9648 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #62 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Bump maps on a cylinder. Date: Wed, 14 Sep 94 11:00:59 +0100 From: milan@valkieser.nl (Milan Polle) Hi Michael, While probably being obvious, you can make one ring of the texture and use the repeat button to have it repeat vertically (I mean brush map ofcourse). The repeat function works for the axis that is set to flat. Hope this helps a bit. Let your Imagination run wild, Milan +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #63 ***************************************:-) Subject: Things I want in IM4.0 Date: Wed, 14 Sep 94 11:16:24 +0100 From: milan@valkieser.nl (Milan Polle) >Day Message: The first thing that a 3D artist says is:"fiat lux" Strange, I don't remember saying that. (What does it mean anyway ?) OIB: My textures for clipmapping and brightnessmapping are all nice and well, but I still want Clipmapping, Brightnessmapping and Specular mapping in 4.0. (Or rather 3.2 :) Da grtz, Milan +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #64 ***************************************:-) Subject: Textures update Date: Wed, 14 Sep 94 11:49:41 +0100 From: milan@valkieser.nl (Milan Polle) Hi people, I am hereby sending an update of the textures I sent previously. The clipmap and cliptran textures now have a backlight flag. The starflare texture looks better and is bugfixed. Also included is a docfile on the textures. All the textures are for the 3.0 version of Imagine for the Amiga (Sorry guys, I still haven't succeeded in compiling for the pc) Let your Imagination run wild, Milan +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #65 ***************************************:-) Subject: Textures.lha uuencoded Amiga IM3.0 Date: Wed, 14 Sep 94 11:50:15 +0100 From: milan@valkieser.nl (Milan Polle) begin 777 textures.lha M(G(M;&@U+=D" ",!0 R:D/'0 #&)R9VAT;6%P+FET>$_2 FUBG7O:M*]_ M_L^M:74,3!F,5\.2M03FKAT&%MLKMH;,MJ,PC:C>=*)MK.]")$^U1<%P7 \$ M0B0DA$7!%Q17#47!$7!$8+F8+@PS!!]<426_OO>^56'MBZ[\-[+E6W'9B*L^ MY- M7)O((S%3RF<7>?7L1U[^\/OOEI1:A.][.*5P)Q8#5(QOB=W<$B;51DII&FFY>PT. 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I keep getting a little skip, or stutter, when the loop starts over. And when I let Imagine do it's looping anim thing, appending two frames, it looks even worse. The plane and the earth jump backwards. Only thing I haven't tried is starting the position and alignment (for the plane following the path) at frame two, instead of frame one. I always just start everything at frame one,--but then I've never needed a seemless loop like this before. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #67 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: HELP WITH FUR OR HAIR. Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 15:13:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Andrew P. Vogel" On Mon, 12 Sep 1994 CHIRON1@delphi.com wrote: > >> There are some JPEG files over on Compuserve that feature > >> mythological creatures and a male jogger. I have yet to ask the renderer to > >> confirm this, but my suspicion is that they are image maps. Are these anywhere to be found on AmiNet? If so, where, please? ======================================================================== Drew Vogel: Admissions Officer at University of Cincinnati Undergraduate Admissions (call 800-827-8728), SysOp of The Cafe' BBS (513-232-4895) FidoNet 1:108/245, Actor, director, Amiga fan, Imagine 3.0/LW 3.5 user, vice-president of Ohio Valley Amiga Users' Group, documentation author, single guy, and much, much more! "The only way OUT is THROUGH." +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #68 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Bump maps on a cylinder. Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 16:56:17 -0400 (EDT) From: jgoldman@acs.bu.edu > > Charles wrote > > Michael, > > > > I don't know if it has been cured in 3.0, but yes, previous versions of > > Imagine would ignore the "repeat" button when the wrap mode was set to > > anything other than FlatX/FlatZ. > In the Bible, ie, "Understanding Imagine 2.0" Mr. Worsley says that > it's a BUG of Imagine. And in the 3.0 Manual, Impulse says that you *can't* repeat brushmaps (via 'repeat' box) on anything other than flat wraps. So in a way it's a bug (it won't do what we want it to), and in a way (a little more accurately) it's officially not a function... J.----> E-Mail: jgoldman@acs.bu.edu +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #69 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: seamless loop Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 17:13:35 -0400 (EDT) From: jgoldman@acs.bu.edu > > Hey y'all, > > Back to basics on this one. I'm trying to make a simple movie of > a plane that orbits a revolving earth. I'd like the thing to loop, > endlessly. > > I keep getting a little skip, or stutter, when the loop starts > over. And when I let Imagine do it's looping anim thing, appending two > frames, it looks even worse. The plane and the earth jump backwards. Get even more basic. Use the FX Rotate2.0 to spin the plane around the world. The only thing you'd have to change is the parent axis of the plane. Move the parent axis to the center of the Earth (center of orbit), then move the plane itself to the edge of the Earth (where it would be orbiting). Be sure the plane is oriented correctly and spin the parent axis. The plane will now orbit the Earth. If you need an elliptical orbit, well then, you must use a path. Create a closed path and 'ellipticalize' (neat word, huh?) it out. Position and align to path, then do a pencil test. If it stutters here it'll stutter in the final run. It *should* work fine, however. One thing to remember (pretty important) is that you should *not* include your last frame. This is 'cause it's the same as your first frame. I think... I'm pretty sure... I'm not at my trusty Amy to check it out fer sure... As a last resort create an open path. Connect the first point of the path with the last point (making sure to rotate the last point 180 degrees to match up). Do this via the transformation requester for more accuracy (you already know that). Do the whole position, aligning, and rendering thing again... If that doesn't work I'd suggest compiling the anim from individual frames (use DPaint, the PD Rend24, or even better the PD Makeanim). Create a looping frame animation. Good Luck!!! Gee it's good to be back again!!! J.----> E-Mail: jgoldman@acs.bu.edu +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #70 ***************************************:-) Subject: FEATURE FOR IMAGINE 3.1 or 3.2 Date: Wed, 14 Sep 94 18:25:30 EDT From: "Steve J. Lombardi" Impulse- Here is a quick little feature that would take only a few moments of your coding time, but could save users HOURS!!! In the detail editor I'd like a way to 'memorize' an object's axis sizing and scaling information. another function would 'restore' the previously memorized settings. In between a memorize and a restore I could do all the twists, tapers, bends I could stand, manipulating the axis every which way as needed. when I was done a hot key would restore the original axis settings. This is important after placing and animating an object in the stage and later needing to edit the object further. this would save two trips into the transform requestor, writing down all of the settings, and later typing them back in. If it's too late for 3.1, I'd really like this in 3.2. Thanks for listening. P.S. Not to beat a dead horse, but with a robust arexx interface, users could hack together a macro in a few minutes to do the above!! So I guess this is also a plug for arexx. saint lombo +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #71 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: seamless loop Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 17:02:57 -0600 (MDT) From: Roger Straub Have you tried turning off the spline motion scaling in Action? As far as I understand it, the motion will taper off toward the end of the movement. This might produce some "skipping" effeots. See ya, Roger +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #72 ***************************************:-) Subject: Looping Anim Date: Wed, 14 Sep 94 20:56:11 EDT From: mtucibat@cris.com (Mike Tucibat) On 9-14, Mike McCool wrote: M> Back to basics on this one. I'm trying to make a simple movie of M> a plane that orbits a revolving earth. I'd like the thing to loop, M> endlessly. M> M> I keep getting a little skip, or stutter, when the loop starts M> over. And when I let Imagine do it's looping anim thing, appending two M> frames, it looks even worse. The plane and the earth jump backwards. ====================== Just a quick thought... If you have the start and end frames identical, you should only use eg. 29 of 30 frames for the anim. And in that case, you wouldn't want to make a repeating anim. -mikeT +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #73 ***************************************:-) Subject: Understanding3.X Date: Wed, 14 Sep 94 18:30:00 PDT From: JimiC@cup.portal.com Does anyone know when Steve W's book Understanding Imagine 3.X is comming out? I wrote him, but no response. Thanks! +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #74 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: FEATURE FOR IMAGINE 3.1 or 3.2 Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 21:04:57 -0600 (MDT) From: Douglas Rudd > > > Impulse- Here is a quick little feature that would take only a few moments > of your coding time, but could save users HOURS!!! > > In the detail editor I'd like a way to 'memorize' an object's axis > sizing and scaling information. another function would 'restore' the > previously memorized settings. In between a memorize and a restore I could > do all the twists, tapers, bends I could stand, manipulating the axis > every which way as needed. when I was done a hot key would restore > the original axis settings. This is important after placing and > animating an object in the stage and later needing to edit the object further. > Unless I'm missing something, it would seem the copy/paste functions should work here. Copy your object, play with it, then if you don't like the results (and can't get back with undo), delete it and paste the original back. Doug Rudd rudd@plk.af.mil +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #75 ***************************************:-) Subject: ReBoot Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 21:39:26 -0600 From: beeton@SEDSystems.ca (Gary Beeton, beeton@SEDSystems.ca) Greetings, I just finished watching a TV show called ReBoot. It is a half-hour kids show produced *ENTIRELY* using 3-D CG animation. The premise of the show is almost identical to TRON, except there is no rotoscoping involved here. They seem to go out of their way to make it look CG, but they achieve some pretty good organic effects too (including humanoid characters with credible facial expressions). I didn't manage to catch enough of the credits to determine the computer platform or software they used, but I did note that it is produced in Vancouver, Canada. It plays Wednesday evenings on YTV (Canada). For those who can, I highly recommend a watch. Very Cool!! Gary beeton@SEDSystems.ca +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #76 ***************************************:-) Subject: Australian Imagine Users.... Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 15:18:42 +1000 (EST) From: MiKE Hi all, This is a quick message about an upcoming TV show on ABC TV which is chocka full of Imagine Animation. just a short note to let you know that "Going Walkabout in Cyberspace" & the other microdocs screen nationally on ABC TV on Wednesday September 28 at 9.30pm. Set the video!! This animations in this doco were done using Imagine2.0 and essence textures. All post-production work was done on Macs :(. Produced directed by a bunch of guys/gals from Bris/Sydney. (Not to boast or anything, but the modelling of the satellite orbiting around the globe was done on my very own 1200!) later MiKE (Cstar on #amiga) Subvert the dominant paradigm. cheng@sun.mech.uq.oz.au http://www.uq.oz.au/mecheng/home/MiKE.html [Alternate: Michael.Cheng@lambada.oit.unc.edu e4302585@mailbox.uq.oz.au] +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #77 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: FEATURE FOR IMAGINE 3.1 or 3.2 Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 11:05:48 -0400 (EDT) From: jgoldman@acs.bu.edu > > > > In the detail editor I'd like a way to 'memorize' an object's axis > > sizing and scaling information. another function would 'restore' the > > previously memorized settings. Etc... > Unless I'm missing something, it would seem the copy/paste functions > should work here. Copy your object, play with it, then if you don't > like the results (and can't get back with undo), delete it and paste > the original back. I believe the original poster is alluding to the fact that when doing certain things to objects, such as using deformations (bend, taper, twist, stretch, pinch, etc), changes are affected based on the object's axis. The poster wants, after using deformations, an easy way to change *just* the axis back to its original values. For instance, take an object with an axis at world center (0,0,0) and with size dimensions 32,32,32. This is the way a user wants the object's axis to be at all times. The user also wants to perform a deformation that requires the axis to be in a different location (e.g. only the top third of the object is to be affected). To do this, *only* the axis is moved to a new location (about a third of the way from the geometric top of the object). It is then used to deform the object. The user now needs that axis back in its original position. Either you have a 'recall original values' function, which the original poster suggested, or you do the slow (current) method of remembering the original location, size, and alignment values, and then apply them manually. Hope it clears things up a bit... J.----> E-Mail: jgoldman@acs.bu.edu +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #78 ***************************************:-) Subject: loopers Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 10:58:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike McCool Thanks, y'all, for all your advice on making a seamless loop. Turns out the problem may be my viewer. I think it was J Goldman (thanks, mate) who first suggested using an outside animator to compile all the rendered frames. I usually do this anyway, with Buildanim, a GREAT pd animator. But I always use Vutek to view the finished product, and no matter what I did, it always skipped. So I tried using MainActor to compile the frames, then let it add its loop frames as requested, then used its viewer to view the anim. Voila. No skip. And interestingly enough, when I try viewing this MainActor-compiled anim with Vutek, it SKIPS. Anyhow, thanks J Goldman, and Mike Tucibat and Bush Doktor, for putting me on the right track. All is now right with the world. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #79 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Black lines on reflective objects. Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 18:15:40 -0500 (EST) From: leyen@inf.ufrgs.br (Christian Leyen) Hi, I had the same problem some time ago. This happens when you use a picture that doesn't "fill" all the columns of its resolution. In some paint programs it is impossible (or difficult) to access all the columns in an overscan image, so when you save the picture, these columns are all black. When Imagine uses this picture as a global brush, these black columns appear in the reflections. One solution is to load the picture in an image proccessing program (ADpro, ImageFX) and crop it to remove the black columns, and then save it again. Christian Leyen (leyen@inf.ufrgs.br) ~""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""~ +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #80 ***************************************:-) Subject: Forge and ESSTOIM29 Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 22:56:09 -0400 (EDT) From: BOCONNELL@mecn.mass.edu Hi- I own both essence packages as well as forge. Forge loads e2 no prob, but when i load any e1 textures (converted to .itx by esstoim29) it bags. samewith im3.0 textures. is there a patch program from apex to add the neccessary information into the texture headers? i should say that i purchased e1 well over a year ago (ver. 1.1) Perhaps an update disk? Ideas? Bob +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #81 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Australian Imagine Users.... Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 23:37:46 -0400 From: Charles Blaquiere Hmmm... "Going walkabout"... "Bris/Sydney"... I guess "ABC" would be the _Australian_ Broadcasting Corporation, perhaps? I almost got a heart attack before I realized the show you mention would be broadcast halfway around the world from North America, where I am. Silly me -- and I thought ABC (The American Broadcasting Companies) would devote an hour to Imagine-filled virtual reality. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #82 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: FEATURE FOR IMAGINE 3.1 or 3.2 Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 23:46:06 -0400 From: Charles Blaquiere Ahh, I see what the original poster wanted. This means my first (hasty) reply is full of it. Let's try again. Copy your object. Select all points (Amiga-3, Amiga-A) and delete (Amiga-D). You are left with a lone axis, with all the settings you want to come back to. Paste your original object into the workspace. Move its axis, transform/mangle it at will. When you are ready to bring back the original axis: Enter Pick Groups or Pick Objects mode (Amiga-1 or Amiga-2). Pick the lone axis, then (using Shift to multi-select) pick your transformed object. Join them (Amiga-J). Presto! all object data from your object is glued onto the lone axis, forming a single object. Isn't Imagine a powerful modeller? +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #83 ***************************************:-) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 1994 03:49:54 +1000 From: imagine-relay@email.sp.paramax.com For those who are interested and have HTTP abilities for WWW. I have done 3D renderings for Case Western Reserve University using Imagine 2.9. Check out: http://www.cwru.edu/ I also have my own home page with many inline images, and a page of other renderings you can retrieve. Right now it is: http://ins02132.ins.cwru.edu/ but it will soon be http://sushi.ins.cwru.edu/ Note my own home page is usually unavailable from 8-5 EST. -- +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Michael Comet, mbc@po.CWRU.Edu - CWRU, Software Engineer/Graphics Artist | | Computer Graphics/Animation! - HomePage: http://ins02132.cwru.edu/ | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #84 ***************************************:-) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 1994 05:17:35 +1000 From: imagine-relay@email.sp.paramax.com On Thu, 15 Sep 1994, Mike McCool wrote: > > > Anyone else getting mail bounced back from the list with the note 'Member > unknown jnunez'? > > I don't know where this jnunez is coming from--and my messages > still end up getting posted to the list, so they're getting through. I'm > also asking my local server. > > Imagine related token: showed a short morphing states anim at my > local amiga user's group meeting last night, and had folks' tongues > hanging out. Some actually required medical attention . . . > > Yes... I get this too! Unknown member jnunez@aol.com... or somesuch. It happens every time I post to the list. OIB: I got the 'Imagine Companion 2.0' (electronic version) from Dave Duberman. It seems to have a lot of good tutorials... now if I can get time to play with them :) It's about 140 pp. printed out, with screenshots and all. Ed /****************************************************************************/ /* Ed Phillips flaregun@strauss.udel.edu University of Delaware */ /* Jr Systems Programmer (302) 831-6082 IT/Network and Systems Services */ /****************************************************************************/ +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #85 ***************************************:-) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 1994 05:42:18 +1000 From: imagine-relay@email.sp.paramax.com You have to get an upgrade to version 3.0 to allow Essence-I textures to work in Forge. Besides, a couple of the textures have been sped up, and some bugs were squashed. \KenR --------------------------------------------------------------------- Live life to the max! After all, you're dead a long time... --------------------------------------------------------------------- +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #86 ***************************************:-) Subject: loopers Date: Fri, 16 Sep 94 22:01:00 -0100 From: torgeir.holm@tbc.bbs.no (Torgeir Holm) >I usually do this anyway, with Buildanim, a GREAT pd animator. >But I always use Vutek to view the finished product, and no matter what >did, it always skipped. >So I tried using MainActor to compile the frames, then let it add >its loop frames as requested, then used its viewer to view the anim. >Voila. No skip. And interestingly enough, when I try viewing this >MainActor-compiled anim with Vutek, it SKIPS. Hi Mike, try pressing c while the anim is playing. This toggles the skipping. Or you could type: VT Your.anim cont Hope this helps. Torge!r torgeir.holm@tbc.bbs.no ---- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | The BYTE Castle - 6988 3700 / 6988 4100 - Askim, Norway - Info-board | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #87 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: seamless loop Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 22:57:32 -0700 (PDT) From: "Randy R. Wall" > > I keep getting a little skip, or stutter, when the loop starts > over. And when I let Imagine do it's looping anim thing, appending two > frames, it looks even worse. The plane and the earth jump backwards. Try building the anim without the last frame. =RRW= +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #88 ***************************************:-) Subject: HALO AROUND LIGHT IN IMAGINE Date: Sun, 18 Sep 94 21:46:00 EDT From: "Steve J. Lombardi" I'm trying to get a nice halo of light to appear around a light in imagine. let me explain. the scene is pretty dark. just some ambiant light. at one end of the room is a red emergency light flashing. when the camera looks at the light, I want the area around the light to glow. I've tried a few things without getting nice results. ANy suggestions?? If it helps, I've got the essence textures. thanks. -- steve lombardi stlombo@acm.rpi.edu +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #89 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Imagine for Macs Date: Sun, 18 Sep 1994 23:53:17 -0400 (EDT) From: CHIRON1@delphi.com >> How come that Imagine isn't produced for the Macintosh...?? > Probably because the Mac has slow graphics [snip] As opposed to the incredibly speedy IBM platform (for which there *is* a version of Imagine? We have Pentiums at work and they a slow and have blocky graphics. It's probably the software, but they are supposed to be "showing off" the Pentium's capabilities! (Yawn!) Quicktime is a pretty lame way of comparing computer capabilities. I've seen CD-ROM software that was produced for both platforms, and it doesn't look any better on an IBM. ***** Paul ***** CHIRON1@delphi.com (A)bort, (R)etry, (P)retend this never happened? +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #90 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: HALO AROUND LIGHT IN IMAGINE Date: Sun, 18 Sep 1994 22:17:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike McCool Hey Steve, Seems like I got some pretty good 'glowy' effects, when I was fiddling around with making neon tubing. Lemme go see if I can find that imp and look up what I did . . . OK, I found it. I made my neon tube object a Light, made it Bright, and I THINK I hauled its axis around, so the light would point backwards, towards the wall on which it was mounted. No other lights in the room, or at least diminished ones. When rendered, the tube glowed, and made the wall behind it glow, too. Don't see why this shouldn't work for your glowing red light. Good luck. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #91 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Imagine for Macs Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 01:24:23 -0400 From: Jason B Koszarsky I agree that a big problem to be faced by a Mac-Version is the interface of Imagine. FOr it to be accepted on the Mac platform, it must conform to their guidelines. On a side-note, does the Amiga Imagine have its work area displayed in some sort of window on the Imagine screen? A gadgetless window at that. I'm wondering because it is possible to lose system requesters behind the Imagine work area if you hit the requester's depth gadget. If the requester is near the title bar there is a 1pixel gap in which you may be able to pull the requester back up front. I don't lose them often, its only happened accidentally. But it is annoying and has made me wonder if the work area is a custom window rather than a screen that I thought it was. Jaeson K. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #92 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: HALO AROUND LIGHT IN IMAGINE Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 00:31:49 -0400 (EDT) From: jgoldman@acs.bu.edu > > > > I'm trying to get a nice halo of light to appear around > a light in imagine. There are several ways of doing this. The first method works under IM2.0 and 3.0. It takes the most work, but looks terrific if done correctly. The second method works under 2.0 and 3.0, and is easier. 3.0's version looks better due to the textures involved. The third method works only under 3.0. I'll create an easy example, a simple lightbulb. Think 2D for a bit, and remember that the visible lightsource described is the type you'd see on film. What's a light look like? Well, there's a central disk of light that seems to be a constant brightness, the bulb itself. As you go further outward a secondary disk of light surrounds the central disk. This the first halo. It is roughly twice twice the size of the central disk. It fades out rather quicky. It's, essentially, the part of the light that "burns" the film. Go further outward. There's a second halo. It's very dim and eventually fades out. This halo varies in size, but can usually be set to eight times the size of the original disk. This is the halo that is create when the light is dispersed by atmospheric conditions. So with that in mind. --- METHOD #1 (The Pain in the A$s Radial Texture Method) Create a disk utilizing Imagine's standard Disk parameters. Copy the disk and scale the new one by a factor of two. Copy the larger disk and scale the new one by a factor of four. You should now have three disks of varying size. Position the disks so that the smallest is in front of the middlesized. The middlesized is in front of the largest. Make the smallest disk Bright with a Color of 255,255,255. Also, make it a Lightsource. Apply Radial textures to the middlesized and largest disks. The middlesized disk should be Bright and have a color of 150,150,255. The Radial texture should be set so that the disk's transparency is set to 0,0,0 at the center. Create a transition distance over the radius of the disk so that transparency is 255,255,255 at the disk's edge. You want the disk's color to fade as it moves toward the edge of the disk. The larger disk should be Bright and have a color of 255,255,255, and a Transparancy of 170, 170, 170. Set the Radial texture so that the color fades to total transparency (255, 255, 255) at the disk's edge. Transform the smallest disk's axis ONLY. Bring up the Transformation Requester, and Rotate the Z axis 180 degrees. Select the Transform Axis Only button and Perform. The disk's Y-axis should be pointing exactly opposite the other disks' Y-Axis. Group the three disks together using the smallest disk as the Parent. This is a basic "Light w/halo" object. When rendering it be sure to always point the Y-axis at the camera. It's easy to do. Just Align Y-axis to Track to Object Camera. Render that, and see what you get. In this example the smallest disk acts like the bright lightbulb, the second disk acts like the film burn area, and the third disk acts like the atmospheric dispersion area. This object, being 2D, has some limitations. A primary limitation is that this object only works well in Scanline situations. This is because in Trace Mode the two larger Radial mapped spheres block the smaller disk's light travelling backwards. To work around it create an axis, make it a Lightsource, place it behind the larger disk, and group it to the smallest disk. It isn't infallible, however... Experiment with values. The Color values given above were for a standard high intesity lightsource. Always remember what your lightsource would look like in the real world. In the case of a red exit sign, make the Color values predominently red, and substitute a polygon created "EXIT" object for the first disk. Or something like that... --- METHOD #2 (The Fog Method) Create a primitive sphere. Make it Bright with the Color values 255,255,255. Copy the sphere and scale it slightly larger than the original sphere primitive. Make this sphere a Fog object by experimenting with Fog Length values. Color it as necessary. For those with Imagine3.0 assign the Ghost texture to the foggy sphere. Experiment with values. I haven't actually tried this yet, but it should work... --- METHOD #3 (The Haze Method) Use Global FX Haze to fuzz up your exit sign. A note, however. I still can't get Haze to work correctly. Yes, I've copied the texture from Disk #1, etc. etc... Still no go... Any takers? That's about it, I guess. I'm sure there are many other ways. In fact, another favorite is digitizing a lightsource and creating a transparency map out of it. The map is then assigned to a plane (or disk)... Experiment is the only solution to the halo-around-lightsouce problem. I've just volunteered some jump off points of my own. Good luck!! J.----> E-Mail: jgoldman@acs.bu.edu +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #93 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: HALO AROUND LIGHT IN IMAGINE Date: Mon, 19 Sep 94 12:55:29 +0100 From: milan@valkieser.nl (Milan Polle) Hi Steve, I am just working on a cool texture that does what you want, I think. You can apply it to a cube for instance and it will draw a nice round glow. I am now making a function that changes the glow as the camera angle gets closer to the textures y-axis, so it will for instance get brighter as the camera looks into the lightsource. It isn't quite finished yet, but I am working on it. Let your Imagination run wild, Milan +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #94 ***************************************:-) Subject: Advert: avalon.chinalake CDROM Date: 19 Sep 94 14:09:31 EDT From: John Foust - Syndesis Corporation <76004.1763@compuserve.com> To: imagine Syndesis Corporation announces the release of "Syndesis Avalon", an exact CDROM snapshot of one of the Internet's most popular 3D archives, known as "avalon.chinalake.navy.mil". Syndesis Avalon contains hundreds of 3D models in various formats, plus hundreds of 3D-related documents and utilities. This is an ISO-9660 disc that can be accessed on any computer. It has long ISO Level 2 filenames for the Amiga and Mac, as well as Rock Ridge formatting that restores full Unix filenames on systems that understand it, such as Linux. This disc is an exact copy of the Internet site as of July 18, 1994. No files have been added or removed. (Unlike the Syndesis 3D-ROMs, the 3D models on this disc are not pre-converted to other file formats. You'll also need decompression tools like 'compress', 'gzip', 'tar', etc. to use these files, just as if you accessed the Internet site.) Syndesis Avalon includes a printed catalog of the files, showing the Unix filenames and the corresponding MS-DOS-like ISO-9660 filenames. The price is $49.95. Syndesis Corporation 235 South Main Street Jefferson, WI 53549 (414) 674-5200 (414) 674-6363 FAX 76004.1763@compuserve.com +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #95 ***************************************:-) Subject: Advert: new 3D model CDROMs, 3D translat Date: 19 Sep 94 14:11:27 EDT From: John Foust - Syndesis Corporation <76004.1763@compuserve.com> To: imagine Announcing a spectacular demonstration of a new 3D translation technology called InterChange... The "Syndesis 3D-ROM Volume I" is a CDROM collection of more than 500 freely distributable 3D models, all present in AutoCAD DXF, 3D Studio, Wavefront .obj, Video Toaster LightWave and Impulse's Imagine (PC/Amiga) formats. It's also got more than 400 tileable, wrappable texture maps in GIF, TIF and IFF-24 format. "Syndesis 3D-ROM Volume I" includes 28 Viewpoint DataLabs demo models, plus demo high-res humanoids from Imagination Works, and office equipment models from Noumenon Labs, and household items from VRS Media, and digitized models from Mira Imaging, and animations demonstrating the first set of IPAS routines for 3D Studio from the Yost Group. "Syndesis 3D-ROM Volume II" is an entirely new collection of more than 200 new models, each pre-translated to five formats like the first 3D-ROM. "Syndesis 3D-ROM Volume II" also includes the five Siggraph 93 demo models from Viewpoint DataLabs, plus the demo version of trueSpace for Windows from Caligari Corporation, plus the demo version of Visual Reality for Windows from Visual Software, plus the demo version of RenderWare for Windows from Criterion Software Ltd. We give away hundreds of copies of each 3D-ROM to those people who contribute models for the next edition of the disc. If you send us one or more 3D models that we can include on the next 3D-ROM, and we use your models on that disc, you get a free copy of that disc. Ask us for a submission form. The Syndesis 3D-ROMs are ISO-9660 discs, fully accessible from MS-DOS, Macintosh, Amiga and Unix workstations. Each includes a fully indexed, categorized and cross-referenced catalog of the objects complete with thumbnail renderings. Each 3D-ROM is $99.95. The Syndesis 3D-ROMs are a demonstration of the translation abilities of InterChange, Syndesis Corporation's system for converting between 3D file formats. InterChange translates between AutoCAD DXF, 3D Studio, Wavefront, LightWave, Imagine, Swivel, Sculpt, Sense8, CAD-3D, RenderWare, Alias polyset, Vista DEM and many other file formats. All material and hierarchy information is preserved as best as possible. InterChange is available for Microsoft Windows and Amiga computers. InterChange for Windows is $495. If you'd like to find out about InterChange and our CDROMs, we'd be glad to add you to our mailing list. Our catalog includes more information about InterChange as well as thumbnail renderings of all the models on the 3D-ROMs. Drop us an e-mail with your snail-mail postal address, and tell us which 3D programs you use, and which file formats you need to translate. Syndesis Corporation 235 South Main Street Jefferson, WI 53549 (414) 674-5200 (414) 674-6363 FAX 76004.1763@compuserve.com +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #96 ***************************************:-) Subject: Imagine for Macs Date: Mon, 19 Sep 94 18:36:00 -0100 From: torgeir.holm@tbc.bbs.no (Torgeir Holm) >On a side-note, does the Amiga Imagine have its work area >displayed in some sort of window on the Imagine screen? >A gadgetless window at that. I'm wondering because it is >possible to lose system requesters behind the Imagine >work area if you hit the requester's depth gadget. If the >requester is near the title bar there is a 1pixel gap in >which you may be able to pull the requester back up front. >I don't lose them often, its only happened accidentally. >But it is annoying and has made me wonder if the work area >is a custom window rather than a screen that I thought it >was. You're absolutely right. The work area is a window. If you lose a requester behind this window, you will lock up the program until you get the requester back :( If you use the commodity Yak, you will be able to send the work area to the back with a LMB->RMB mouseclick. This will get you your requesters back. BTW: Try resizing the work area with DragIt4, works just like any other window. ecept that the contents are cropped, not scaled. Torge!r torgeir.holm@tbc.bbs.no ---- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | The BYTE Castle - 6988 3700 / 6988 4100 - Askim, Norway - Info-board | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #97 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Imagine for Macs Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 14:11:16 -0600 (MDT) From: Douglas Rudd They will get my Amiga from me when they pry it out of my cold dead hands. Seriously, my Amigas are having no problems keeping up with the PCs. My A2000/040-33mhz leaves my 486DX2/50 in the dust. I think the real problem here is for Impulse to keep Imagine on track for two platforms. Porting to more will make that even more difficult. Already, we see divergence - Imagine PC can import/export different files. Essence is available only for the Amiga version. At least both versions look alike and to some extent, function alike. Throw a bad apple into the works, and we'll have a new "look&feel", QT anims, and a $2500 price tag (otherwise, Mac users won't buy it - remember Sculpt 3D?). You can bet the Mac people will feel no comradery with the PC Imagine users, and won't even acknowledge the existence of an Amiga version. Doug Rudd ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Amiga Guide to the Galaxy refers to Commodore's management as "A bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first to be lined up against the wall and shot when the revolution comes." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #98 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: HALO AROUND LIGHT IN IMAGINE Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 17:36:46 -0600 (MDT) From: Roger Straub On Sun, 18 Sep 1994, Steve J. Lombardi wrote: > I'm trying to get a nice halo of light to appear around > a light in imagine. let me explain. the scene is pretty dark. just Hi, Steve! If you're using Imagine 3.0 you can use the Sparkle texture. If you've downloaded Milan's textures (BTW, Thanx, Milan!) there is one itx in there that is useful, but my memory fails me as to the name. I don't have essence, so I don't know what there might be in there. Hope this helps... See ya, Roger +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #99 ***************************************:-) Subject: Brush Maps on Subgroups Date: Mon, 19 Sep 94 16:38 PDT From: Michael North Both 3dModeling Lab and Understanding Imagine say that you can apply a brush map to a subgroup of picked faces, but I can't seem to get the PC version of Imagine 2.0 to do this. I go into Pick Faces, pick some, make them a subgroup and then give the subgroup a name. Then, when I try to pick that subgroup, the requestor pops up with a mangled version of the name I so carefully chose (like "ee" for "cheek") and all the options but the first three grayed out. I am following the directions in UI letter for letter as far as I can tell, and it just seems that the PC Imagine 2.0 won't let me do what I'm trying to do. Is there a bug here, a limitation in 2.0 or the PC version, or am I doing something wrong? +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #100 ***************************************:-) id m0qmtcb-0006MIC; Mon, 19 Sep 94 21:03 EDT Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 21:03:49 +0100 From: Mark Jones Subject: Re: Imagine for Macs To: Mike McCool Cc: Soren Wind , imagine@email.sp.paramax.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I reference to Photoshop, which is basically an image processor, I believe Imagemaster DOES have a lens flare feature. And Imagemaster R/T is like $69.00 via mail order right now, but older versions do it also. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #101 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Imagine for Macs Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 23:39:00 -0400 From: david.wyand@canrem.com (David Wyand) Hi Jason! >On a side-note, does the Amiga Imagine have its work area >displayed in some sort of window on the Imagine screen? >A gadgetless window at that. I'm wondering because it is >possible to lose system requesters behind the Imagine >work area if you hit the requester's depth gadget. If the >requester is near the title bar there is a 1pixel gap in >which you may be able to pull the requester back up front. >I don't lose them often, its only happened accidentally. >But it is annoying and has made me wonder if the work area >is a custom window rather than a screen that I thought it >was. It would appear that the Imagine interface is located inside of a normal window that is lacking close of sizing gadgets. All they would ahve to do is to make the window a backdrop one, just like you can with the Workbench in 2.0 and above. That way nothing can go behind it, even if you press the go-to-back gadget of another window. Easy fix. -Dave david.wyand@canrem.com +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #102 ***************************************:-) Subject: HALO AROUND LIGHT IN IMAGINE Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 23:35:00 -0400 From: david.wyand@canrem.com (David Wyand) Hi Steve! >I'm trying to get a nice halo of light to appear around >a light in imagine. let me explain. the scene is pretty dark. just >some ambiant light. at one end of the room is a red emergency light >flashing. when the camera looks at the light, I want the area around the >light to glow. I've tried a few things without getting nice >results. ANy suggestions?? If it helps, I've got the essence textures. Two ways of doing this come to mind: You could use the Lens Flare effect that comes with Imagine 3.0 or use a fog object. LENS FLARE: Just disable the flaring and have only the halo turned on. Easy. FOG: Make a fog sphere the colour you want the halo. Apply the Ghost texture. Adjust the sphere size and the ghost parameters until you get what you want. I prefer this method as I feel that you get more control and you don't have to spend time post-processing. All questions are welcomed... -Dave david.wyand@canrem.com +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #103 ***************************************:-) Subject: re- kinematics. Date: Tue, 20 Sep 94 16:44:41 EST From: D.Haines@unsw.edu.au Howdy all, Has any one done any work with inverse kinematics yet ! I have started to muck about with it and it does seem to be working, however if some one feels that they have any gems they'd like to share, I am sure everyone would appreciate it, as the read me file that came with the prog, is oh so thin on detail. Bye the way, my global haze does not seem to work. Just a plug for those textures that apeared on the list they are awesome ! David Haines College of Fine Arts Phone: +61 +2 +339-9555 Fax: +61 +2 +339-9506 +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #104 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Imagine on Mac Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 09:13:38 -0600 (MDT) From: Douglas Rudd Snip > that they are a lame. I am an Imagine user, Imagine is ... good, but > I am learning LightWave, and realizing that Imagine is ... avarage. > In fact when I master LightWave I'll keep Imagine sleeping on my HD. > Yes. LW is very good. I've been using it for a little over a month now. The rendering engine and its environment put Imagine to shame. BUT- LW's Modeler leaves much to be desired. I wouldn't use it at all if it were not for Metamorph. Imagine's Detail editor offers (to me) a much greater and more positive control. Applique is far better than Modeler's displacement map and there are no "states" in LW. LW does a great job of tacking down brushes, but beyond that, I have found little control over brushes and textures (well, these are not in Modeler, but in LW). My point: Use LW to render. Use Imagine to model and convert the object to LW format. It works for me. (Oh yes, Imagine lacks one other LW "feature". A dongle.) Doug Rudd +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #105 ***************************************:-) Subject: LW<>IM Conversion (was: Imagine on Mac) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 13:55:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Michael Whitten >Yes. LW is very good. I've been using it for a little over a month >now. The rendering engine and its environment put Imagine to shame. >BUT- LW's Modeler leaves much to be desired. I wouldn't use it at all >if it were not for Metamorph. Imagine's Detail editor offers (to me) >a much greater and more positive control. Applique is far better than >Modeler's displacement map and there are no "states" in LW. LW does >a great job of tacking down brushes, but beyond that, I have found >little control over brushes and textures (well, these are not in >Modeler, but in LW). > >My point: Use LW to render. Use Imagine to model and convert the object >to LW format. It works for me. (Oh yes, Imagine lacks one other LW >"feature". A dongle.) > >Doug Rudd So what does everyone recommend for accurately converting Imagine objects back and forth with Lightwave's? best wishes, Michael +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ + M.D. Whitten mw@lenti.med.umn.edu Sentience is overrated. + +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #106 ***************************************:-) Subject: Where are the Archives? Date: Tue, 20 Sep 94 15:38:00 PDT From: KEN_ROBERTSON@robelle.com The IML archies are stored at aminet sites. For example, ftp.wustl.edu and ftp.cdrom.com They are in located in pub/aminet/gfx/3d. \KenR *********************************************************************** It's not how you say it, it's when you say it. *********************************************************************** +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #107 ***************************************:-) Subject: Everything about Motion Blur Date: Tue, 20 Sep 94 17:45:15 MDT From: "Mark Allan Fox" Greetings: I've recently came back from summer holidays. I noticed (in the last 700 messages) that their was some discussion of motion blur. I thought that I would devulge the information I know about this subject as well as why I sincerly doubt that Impulse will include this feature in any of the upcoming upgrades. I will also give some hints as to how to simulate motion blur (actually it really isn't simulating, it's the real thing) using Imagine (or any other rendering program for that matter) and an image processing package. Motion Blur - What is it? How do we get it? The human eye does not see motion as most computer renderers see it. The human eye does not see motion as a continuous set of instantaneous pictures. The human eye sees motion through persistence of vision. Our eyes are constantly taking visual data from our surroundings, the data our eyes feed to our brains is not sampled. This is a difficult effect to achieve on the computer. There are algorithms that allow a computer to achieve real motion blur, but these tend to be really slow if your using a large number of polygons. They get even more complex, and even slower, if you start moving objects along spline paths. (If your interested, and have access to a good library, check out Computer Graphics, Volume 17, Number 3, July 1993, _Temporal Anti-Aliasing in Computer Generated Animation_.) Much faster ways of approximating motion blur exist. These approximations hide some of the temporal-aliasing (aliasing over time) while the real motion blur method completely eliminates it. Some programs use a method much like the way Imagine casts multiple rays while ray-tracing to eliminate regular (spacial) aliasing. This method is called distributed ray-tracing. While Imagine (3.0) can cast many rays through the area of a pixel to approximate the pixel's average color value, motion blur casts many rays over time through the area of a pixel to determine that pixel's average color value. (Note that both methods can be combined without necessarily increasing the rays cast. Realistically the number of rays should be increased, perhaps by a factor of two, because when combined the two methods tend to have a negative impact on each other's approximations.) Distributed ray-tracing is fairly easy to implement _when ray-tracing_. It becomes infinitely more difficult when using a scanline renderer. (So difficult, in fact that I won't even discuss it.) Motion Blur - Why Impulse probably won't implement it? As pointed out above, motion blur is hellishly hard to implement in scanlining (because scanlining does hidden surface removal on a line, actually a plane, that passes through a row of pixels). I'm sure that this method can, and has, been implemented, but by a company much larger and richer than Impulse (like Pixar). Problems exist in the distributed ray-tracing method as well. For this method to work it must have information about every objects position over time (or at least the frame to be traced and the two adjacent frames). Imagine's global effects are given access to much information about a _single frame_, and they can be used to control the renderer (as in depth of field), but I'm guessing that they can't access anything but the information about the current frame. So, Impulse would have to over-haul Imagine to implement motion blur. If you look at versions 2.0, 2.9, 3.0 and soon 3.1, you'll notice that almost all the new features are add-ons and really aren't integrated into imagine as a whole. It's great that Impulse planned far enough ahead to allow Imagine to be so modular that these new features are just added-on. Unfortunately, I really don't think Imagine's modularity goes far enough to allow an easy addition of motion blur. So until Impulse completely rebuild s Imagine (something, I for one, think is due) I sincerely doubt that we will see motion blur in Imagine. Of course I sincerely hope that I am absolutely wrong in the above and that Imagine isn't designed the way I think it is, then perhaps we might see motion blur in one of the next few updates. Motion Blur - How do I do it on my own? Motion blur is quite easy to approximate on your own. However, it does have costs, namely, increased rendering time (everyone knew that one was coming), and an increase in storage space for the individual frames before they are compiled into an animation. There is a slight increase in the space the animation will take too. Simply put to acheive motion blur render more frames than you actually need. So, depending on the amount and speed of the motion in an animation, you render perhaps 3 times as many frames as you want to be in your animation. So if you have a 10 second animation (300 or 240 frames) render 900 or 720 frames. Then use an image processing package to average 3 frames into one. So for frame 1 in the animation you will average frames 1,2 and 3. (DTA does this on the PC. The command for compiling the above example into an FLC file would be .) The real trick here is to figure out how much motion blur you need, if you need it at all. Generally, I find that if an object moves across the whole screen in one frame I will want about 30 sub-frames per frame (big hint: avoid the above case.) So if it moves across half the screen I will want about 15 sub-frames per frame. It's also nice to always use an odd number of sub-frames. That way you know the objects exact location at any given frame (in the middle sub-frame). Another problem arises when working on looping animations. The first and the last frame will not look correct. What you have to do is tack on some extra frames before the first and after the last frames. The number you add depends on the number of sub-frames you are using. If N is the number of sub-frames you are using you have to add (N/2)-1 frames to each end of the animation. You then have to set up in the action editor so that the first (N/2)-1 frames look like the last (N/2)-1 frames and vice-versa. Sometimes you have a scene where motion blur is only needed for a few frames or to one degree or another. This is where scene planning comes into play. Personally I haven't had enough practice in doing this to tell anyone how to achieve this. I have had some success at this, I just haven't yet realised a good method of approaching the problem. A good work around is to plan your camera angles so that you cut from one degree of motion blur to another when the camera changes views. If you have no choice but to have one consistent camera angle then start drawing time-lines, make lots of copies of the whole project (one for each degree of blur), and think hard about what your going to do before commiting yourself to the final render. Of course if you have a Pentium 100 and a couple gigabytes of hard drive space you may be able to use brute force and just do everything at the maximum needed degree of blur. (Not recommended, as you'll save yourself more time by setting up everything the hard (or is that the easy) way, especially if this is a long animation.) If you have more interests in motion blur try Computer Graphics: Principles and Practice, Fundamentals of 3D Computer Graphics, the comp.graphics, comp.graphics.algorithms, newsgroups, or contact me. Mark A. Fox mafox@acs.ucalgary.ca +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #108 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: LW<>IM Conversion (was: Imagine on Mac) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 22:24:09 -0600 (MDT) From: Douglas Rudd > So what does everyone recommend for accurately converting Imagine objects > back and forth with Lightwave's? > > > best wishes, > > Michael > I use Interchange and have had good results to date. Doug Rudd rudd@plk.af.mil ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Amiga Guide to the Galaxy refers to Commodore's management as "A bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first to be lined up against the wall and shot when the revolution comes." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #109 ***************************************:-) Subject: Logo Sizes in Stage Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 18:06:39 +0000 From: David Shaw Hi everyone! I was just curios as to what eveyone else uses for sizes of logos etc in the stage editor for the bread-butter type animations. I average each letter at about 32 units high, and have my main light set to 'controlled fall off' with the light settings at about 400. If any one has a better variation on this I'd be interested in hearing how you set yours up. Also I was wondering how many others manual for 3.0 has pictures that are too dark to see? see ya David Shaw +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #110 ***************************************:-) Subject: bones tute? Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 19:40:43 +1000 (EST) From: MiKE Hi all, I've finally had a little time to devote to looking at Imagine3. The explanation of bones in the book is baffling at best. I had previously saved the bones tutorial someone posted here, but it got lost in a mail shuffle :( Would some kind soul redirect me to its whereabouts? Thanks. PS If anyone knows how to quiz the imagine mail server for info (ie a user list) could they also drop me a line. MiKE (Cstar on #amiga) Subvert the dominant paradigm. cheng@sun.mech.uq.oz.au http://www.uq.oz.au/mecheng/home/MiKE.html [Alternate: Michael.Cheng@lambada.oit.unc.edu e4302585@mailbox.uq.oz.au] +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #111 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Logo Sizes in Stage Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 06:24:43 -0500 From: gregory denby David Shaw writes: > I was just curios as to what everyone else uses for sizes of logos & > I average each letter at about 32 units high, .... Flying or even standing Logos need the same consideration as anything else rendered/animated in Imagine. A common problem is flickering and jaggies especially caused when small straight features are rotated away from the horizontal or vertical plane. The details of thin fonts, or the bevels applied to letter objects can often wink in and out while sweeping across a scene. For the above reasons I like to make my word objects rather large and simple, without too much extrusion to avoid background clutter. Usually I have letters more around 100 units high, in an environment 1000s of units across. I usually make my main light fairly large, around 600-800. Then I add a number of smaller lights to bring out shaded areas and provide glints just where I want them. The controlled fall-off feature really helps with this. (the world size then needs to be set to zero, of course.) Hope this helps, David. To all: I got a note from Mike Halvorson about Re: Imagine for Macs. Thanks for listening Impulse! To summarize, there is no intention to add support for the Mac, because that would slow down development. Mr M. is keenly aware of the dissatisfaction with slow releases, and vows not to let it happen again. So, yeah, Imagine has a bit of catch up to do. Looks like they are up and running. :-) Greg Denby gdenby@twain.helios.nd.edu gregory.g.denby.1@nd.edu +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #112 ***************************************:-) Subject: Lighting (Logo Sizes in Stage) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 94 07:21:00 PDT From: KEN_ROBERTSON@robelle.com David Shaw wrote, > Also I was wondering how many others manual for 3.0 has pictures > that are too dark to see? To ensure that your pictures are not too dark to see, try fiddling with the Global light settings in the Action Editor. Depending on the effect, I usually make my ambient light about 75 to 150 units per R, G, and B. Remember. though, that the higher the ambient light, the "flatter" your picture will look. Using black backgrounds will cause your picture to look fairly dark as well. You can try using a Global brush map or backdrop to provide contrast for your rendered objects. \KenR ****************************************************************** Space is big, Space is dark, It's hard to find A place to park. ****************************************************************** +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #113 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Logo Sizes in Stage Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 18:59:43 +0200 (MET DST) From: Jon Bagge Does it really matter how large objects are in imagine? In units I mean? If I have two identical objects, one 100 units and one 500 units, can't I just adjust the camera and lighting and they will look the same? :-Jon +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #114 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Lighting (Logo Sizes in Stage) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 12:46:25 -0400 (EDT) From: jgoldman@acs.bu.edu > > David Shaw wrote, > > Also I was wondering how many others manual for 3.0 has pictures > > that are too dark to see? > > To ensure that your pictures are not too dark to see, try fiddling > with the Global light settings in the Action Editor. Depending on > the effect, I usually make my ambient light about 75 to 150 units > per R, G, and B. Remember. though, that the higher the ambient light, > the "flatter" your picture will look. Actually, I think he meant the Imagine3.0 Manual itself. Yes, my manual's photos/images are too dark in some instances. That's partly due to the type of paper it's printed on, I think... J.----> E-Mail: jgoldman@acs.bu.edu +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #115 ***************************************:-) Subject: Quickrender versus Project Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 10:27:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike McCool Hey y'all, Anybody got any idea what the parameters/globals etc are for quickrender? I can find the background color and light intensity, but I'm curious why my quickrender looks so drastically different from the real thing. All the objects are there, of course. But textures change. I don't mean added textures, I mean just the look of the objects. Here's what I'm doing. Someone's query about glowing halo effects around lights made me dig out my old neon tubes projects. I have a neon sign glowing against a wall. The wall's just the default plane object, no fiddling with the attributes, everything standard. In the quickrender, the white backdrop wall takes on the glow of the neon, and it has a nice grainy appearance, like sand. How come, to get this same nice soft grainy look in the project editor, I have to go back in and re-attribute my wall with some added texture or brushmap? If I leave it at default, it looks completely different in the actual render, from how it looked in Quickrender. You know, that weird wave-banding across the object, like a bleached rainbow . . . Thanks folks, for your attention. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #116 ***************************************:-) Subject: particles Date: Wed, 21 Sep 94 16:25:24 +0100 From: milan@valkieser.nl (Milan Polle) Hmmmm, while searching for a solution I realise you cannot make a snapshot of a particle object to get a swarm of objects. Argh, just not my lucky day, I guess. Milan +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #117 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Lighting in the manual Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 15:54:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Freundlich >> >> David Shaw wrote, >> > Also I was wondering how many others manual for 3.0 has pictures >> > that are too dark to see? >> >> To ensure that your pictures are not too dark to see, try fiddling >> with the Global light settings in the Action Editor. Depending on >> the effect, I usually make my ambient light about 75 to 150 units >> per R, G, and B. Remember. though, that the higher the ambient light, >> the "flatter" your picture will look. > Actually, I think he meant the Imagine3.0 Manual itself. Yes, >my manual's photos/images are too dark in some instances. That's >partly due to the type of paper it's printed on, I think... Well, even so, I've found that if you fiddle with the RGB values of your world's lighting, you can really improve the darkness of the pictures in the manual. For example, I set my desk lamp's values to 255,255,255 (blindingly bright). If I then stare at the lamp for a while, everything begins to go black. Then when I look at the pictures in the manual, they don't seem nearly as dark anymore. Of course, it takes a few hours for my eyesight to return to normal, but who ever said reading manuals was *easy* ?!?!? ObSmileyForTheHumorImpaired :-) --- Rob Freundlich, Senior Software Engineer | Some folks you don't have IDX Systems Corporation | to satirize, you just quote 'em. | - Tom Paxton, from "A Folk Amiga 4000/040. deal with it. | Singer's Guide to Usenet" +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #118 ***************************************:-) Subject: Imagine bug :( Date: Wed, 21 Sep 94 16:17:01 +0100 From: milan@valkieser.nl (Milan Polle) Hi people, I have found some irritating things in Imagine 3.0: - Objects used as particles loose their textures. - Lockstated particle objects loose their textures (only one color per particle remains) Seems like Imagine could do with a third party particle program? Also I found a bug: try to make a mathematical pyramid: add primitive sphere with 3 circle sections and 1 vertical section, hit ok, and render a flashing guru mediation. Well, enough complaining, just too bad about the particles, I was making an awesome Disney effect that won't be possible now. Milan +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #119 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Quickrender versus Project Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 13:13:27 -0600 From: beeton@SEDSystems.ca (Gary Beeton, beeton@SEDSystems.ca) >... > In the quickrender, the white backdrop wall takes on the glow of >the neon, and it has a nice grainy appearance, like sand. How come, to >get this same nice soft grainy look in the project editor, I have to go >back in and re-attribute my wall with some added texture or brushmap? > > If I leave it at default, it looks completely different in the >actual render, from how it looked in Quickrender. You know, that weird >wave-banding across the object, like a bleached rainbow . . . This sounds like it may just be a "feature" of the software you are using to display your renderings. If you render using more colours than your display can handle then the display software can do one of two things: 1) It can assign all colours within a certain band to one of the colours it can display, or 2) It can dither the display to simulate the desired colour. The first method will produce "that weird wave-banding" effect, so I suspect the software you are using to display your Project renderings does not dither. I think(?) Imagine's Quickrender displayer uses dithering. Dithering applies a pattern of colours to a block of pixels in order to simulate colours that could not otherwise be displayed. If you are far enough away from the block, your eye can no longer detect the pattern and your mind merges it into a solid colour. The problem with dithering is that you must sacrifice spatial resolution to gain colour resolution, which can result in a grainy appearance (which, by accident in this case, is the effect you desire). I would recommend you try some other display software. If you have an image processor like ADPro you can control the method and degree of dithering used. Hope I'm not too far out to lunch on this. Gary beeton@SEDSystems.ca +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #120 ***************************************:-) Subject: re:Quickrender versus Project Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 15:59:00 -0400 From: "rob (r.d.) hounsell" In message "Quickrender versus Project", 'mikemcoo@efn.org' writes: > If I leave it at default, it looks completely different in the >actual render, from how it looked in Quickrender. You know, that weird >wave-banding across the object, like a bleached rainbow . . . Sounds like a dithering issue. Rob +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Rob Hounsell Internet: HOUNSELL@BNR.CA | | Team Leader: UNIX PHONE: (613) 765-2904 | | DMS System Performance Development ESN: 395-2904 | | Dept. 7D23 Bell Northern Research | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #121 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Quickrender versus Project Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 21:59:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike McCool Hey Beeton, et al, As I'm never outsite Imagine when I'm experiencing this problem, I can assume it's not the fault of an outside display program. Though two responses did seem to have one thing in common: dithering. My next attempt at figuring this thing out is going to be to reconfigure my Quickrender format, so it will yield an image the same size as I'm rendering in the Project Editor. Thanks anyway, folks, for your attention. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #122 ***************************************:-) Subject: Logo Sizes in Stage Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 07:15:35 CET From: cjo David Shaw wrote; >Also I was wondering how many others manual for 3.0 has pictures >that are too dark to see? Yes, yes, yes. They are horrible. It seems that my manual came straight from the xerox-machine! ----------------------------------------------------------------- | Conny Joensson | Swedish Space Corp. Esrange | | Kiruna | Satellite operations - Telecom Div. | | Sweden | cjo@smtpgw.esrange.ssc.se | ----------------------------------------------------------------- +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #123 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Bones tute? Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 08:39:31 +0100 (CET) From: Joop.vandeWege@MEDEW.ENTO.WAU.NL Hello everybody, I'll have a look at my archive of August. It might be in there. Anyone wanting archives in Amigaguide format which is sorted on Subject, for easy reading? Just drop me a line. I've 45-52(aug). Greetings Joop Joop.vandeWege@medew.ento.wau.nl +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #124 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Lighting (Logo Sizes in Stage) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 01:05:41 -0700 (PDT) From: "Randy R. Wall" > Actually, I think he meant the Imagine3.0 Manual itself. Yes, > my manual's photos/images are too dark in some instances. That's > partly due to the type of paper it's printed on, I think... Well, it could also be they did use copies of the images. Sure looks like it to me. =RRW= +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #125 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Quickrender versus Project Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 01:09:31 -0700 (PDT) From: "Randy R. Wall" > > If I leave it at default, it looks completely different in the > actual render, from how it looked in Quickrender. You know, that weird > wave-banding across the object, like a bleached rainbow . . . Hmmm. Not sure but sounds like its a lighting problem. You could set up a light set and use it rather than the defualt light in the quickrender. This will of course slow your quickrenders a bit, but probably give you a better representation of what you will get in the stage or action editors. =RRW= +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #126 ***************************************:-) Subject: re:Quickrender versus Project Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 01:20:41 -0700 (PDT) From: "Randy R. Wall" > In message "Quickrender versus Project", 'mikemcoo@efn.org' writes: > > > If I leave it at default, it looks completely different in the > >actual render, from how it looked in Quickrender. You know, that weird > >wave-banding across the object, like a bleached rainbow . . . > > Sounds like a dithering issue. Yes, I must change my opinion, as I stated I thought this could be from your lighting. But this is becuase I am using a 24 bit desplay and dithering was not the first thing that came to mind, but lighting was..But after seeing the replies about it being dithering, I must agree if you are not using a 24bit board of some kind to display your rendering, that dithering would be the most likely problem.. =RRW= +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #127 ***************************************:-) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 20:33:42 EST From: D.Haines@unsw.edu.au I noticed that other people are having a few problems with textures and particles. I have however got brushmaps to stay on the particles which is spectacular( but memory intensive). Particles seem unpredictable, especially with textures and also making imagine obj as the particle - this works sometimes and not others- but I can say imagine obj as particles chew up memory - so keeping it simple is the way to get it to work. If people get nice effects with certain numbers in the particle effects requester, it would be nice to see them come up onto the list. It would be nice to see an interactive attributes editor wind up in a version of Imagine some day - even lowly old infini- d has this, albiet its as slow as dogs balls. I suppose this is what forge is up to Bye the way, in our research lab,a not too complex Alias project,takes up sixty meg of hardrive space, which to my way of thinking, tells me that big is not always better or more importantly,the most efficient.Its great what we have here with Imagine. David Haines College of Fine Arts Phone: +61 +2 +339-9555 Fax: +61 +2 +339-9506 +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #128 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Quickrender versus Project Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 09:17:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Edwin Phillips On Thu, 22 Sep 1994, Randy R. Wall wrote: > > > > If I leave it at default, it looks completely different in the > > actual render, from how it looked in Quickrender. You know, that weird > > wave-banding across the object, like a bleached rainbow . . . > > Hmmm. Not sure but sounds like its a lighting problem. You could set up a > light set and use it rather than the defualt light in the quickrender. > This will of course slow your quickrenders a bit, but probably give you a > better representation of what you will get in the stage or action editors. > > =RRW= > > You could turn off the light in quickrender... 'bleached rainbow' seems to indicate that the neon light is being 'washed' by the white light. Ed /****************************************************************************/ /* Ed Phillips flaregun@strauss.udel.edu University of Delaware */ /* Jr Systems Programmer (302) 831-6082 IT/Network and Systems Services */ /****************************************************************************/ +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #129 ***************************************:-) Subject: Lighting in QuickRender Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 10:43:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Freundlich When you do a QuickRender (Imagine 2.0), it asks you where you want the light to be, in horizontal and vertical degrees. I've been wondering what the other values of this quasi-light are. That is, what are its intensity, distance from the object/"camera", shape (spherical, conical, etc), diminish value, shadow-casting, etc? This question is prompted by the "lighting" response to someone's question about QR vs Project Render. When I read it I flashed back to last night when I was trying to put a light into a scene to reproduce the QR image. --- Rob Freundlich, Senior Software Engineer | Some folks you don't have IDX Systems Corporation | to satirize, you just quote 'em. | - Tom Paxton, from "A Folk Amiga 4000/040. deal with it. | Singer's Guide to Usenet" +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #130 ***************************************:-) Subject: Particles & Textures Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 16:28:23 +0100 From: milan@valkieser.nl (Milan Polle) David Haines writes: > I noticed that other people are having a few problems with textures and >particles. I have however got brushmaps to stay on the particles which is >spectacular( but memory intensive). Wow! I wonder how you did this, I didn't succeed. >Particles seem unpredictable, >especially with textures and also making imagine obj as the particle - this >works sometimes and not others- My biggest problem was that objects used as particles lost their textures, but Mike Halvorson explained that it wasn't possible, but maybe there would be a solution in the future. >It would be nice to see an interactive attributes editor wind up in a >version of Imagine some day - even lowly old infini- d has this, albiet its >as slow as dogs balls. I suppose this is what forge is up to Yeah, well maybe if Forge would support Imagine's textures as well. >Bye the way, in our research lab,a not too complex Alias project,takes up >sixty meg of hardrive space, which to my way of thinking, tells me that big >is not always better or more importantly,the most efficient.Its great what >we have here with Imagine. Sure thing, I don't have an indigo at home to play with wavefront, but hey, an Amiga is a much more fun machine and Imagine is getting better. Let your Imagination run wild, Milan +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #131 ***************************************:-) Subject: Quasi-marble texture Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 10:48:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Freundlich I was trying to make a marble texture last night in Imagine 2.0 (no Essence) and stumbled into something interesting. I made my object a pale white (190-ish on all the RGB sliders), high Shiny value, high Hardness, low Roughness, Specular just a few shades below the object color, ummm, possibly others as well. I then applied two wood textures. The textures are rotated with respect to each other. Both have very wide bands (and a low number of bands) and a large Variation value (for "burl" effect, according to Understanding Imagine). The color of each texture is a darker shade of grey than the object, and the two textures have slightly different colors. My object is a dome-shape, and the result looks quite a bit like marble. Doing the same with a black object and very dark shades gave a dark marble-ish look, although I'm not entirely happy with it yet. When I get them finished, I'll post the images and objects to the net. --- Rob Freundlich, Senior Software Engineer | Some folks you don't have IDX Systems Corporation | to satirize, you just quote 'em. | - Tom Paxton, from "A Folk Amiga 4000/040. deal with it. | Singer's Guide to Usenet" +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #132 ***************************************:-) Subject: Lighting (Logo Sizes in S Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 00:53:00 -0100 From: torgeir.holm@tbc.bbs.no (Torgeir Holm) >Actually, I think he meant the Imagine3.0 Manual itself. Yes, >my manual's photos/images are too dark in some instances. That's >partly due to the type of paper it's printed on, I think... My guess is that they failed to correct the pictures for dot gain before printing. Dot Gain is when the halftone dots grow, because of paper/ ink combinations. It is not a difficult thing to fix, if you know about it :) OIB: Does anyone know of a good way to make realistic, tiny explotions? Anyone recieved 3.1 yet? Torge!r torgeir.holm@tbc.bbs.no ---- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | The BYTE Castle - 6988 3700 / 6988 4100 - Askim, Norway - Info-board | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #133 ***************************************:-) Subject: Quickrender versus Projec Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 00:53:00 -0100 From: torgeir.holm@tbc.bbs.no (Torgeir Holm) >If I leave it at default, it looks completely different in the >actual render, from how it looked in Quickrender. You know, that weird >wave-banding across the object, like a bleached rainbow . . . >Thanks folks, for your attention. Sounds to me like you have dithering turned on in your quickrender, and off in your final renderings. I make all my Quickrenders in 24 bit, then use PPshow4.0 to view them in HAM8. (I have made a Global Hotkey in Dopus which does this, so I won't have to swap screens). I find that my quickrenders often look a lot different (better) when displayed with ppshow. Torge!r torgeir.holm@tbc.bbs.no ---- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | The BYTE Castle - 6988 3700 / 6988 4100 - Askim, Norway - Info-board | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #134 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Quickrender versus Project Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 22:00:00 PDT From: Stethem Ted 5721 This banding is definitely due to dithering. This is because Quickrender is set by default to HAM (in the Amiga) because this is the fastest/bestest tradeoff for test renders. You can change the Quickrender default in the preferences to higher resolutions/colors but it will be at the expense of time, which kind of defeats the point of Quickrender, but each to his own ... er, preferences. _\|*****************<<<-ooOoo->>>***********************|/_ * * * I have a terabyte appetite on a kilobyte budget! * * * << - Kwantum Kid, Inventor of the SCRAM, >> * Semi-Concious Redundant Access Memory * * * _ ******************<<<-xxXxx->>>************************_ /| |\ +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #135 ***************************************:-) Subject: 060 Availability Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 12:27:29 -0400 (EDT) From: BOCONNELL@mecn.mass.edu Hi All- This is the promised follow up report on the '060 Warp Engine Board. I sent mail to the developer, Bill Coldwell and was told that the pin holes next to the 040 were not for the 060, but for testing and diagnostics. He also said that the 060 wouldn't work with the amiga OS as yet. He suggested that I wait for what he called the "transwarp engine" which features it's own ROM, allowing it to work with the amiga OS. When I queried as to availability and pricing schedules i received a polite "no comment on that yet." OK- while the data supports no conclusions as yet, I'll take an UNeducated, UNinformed guess. They are developing it. They really want to tell us about it. For matters of security in r&d, they can't. I for one will follow Mr. Coldwells advice. I'm going to wait. Nic- from what i know, the only thing you need to change the 28mhz WE to the 40mhz is the new chip. OK- Imagine time- Has anyone ever been able to get the Global Lens Flare texture to work? Trapped in a world without lenses... Bob +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #136 ***************************************:-) Subject: re:Lighting in QuickRender Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 13:15:00 -0400 From: "rob (r.d.) hounsell" In message "Lighting in QuickRender", 'RSF@mother.idx.com' writes: >When you do a QuickRender (Imagine 2.0), it asks you where you want the light >to be, in horizontal and vertical degrees. I've been wondering what the other >values of this quasi-light are. That is, what are its intensity, distance from >the object/"camera", shape (spherical, conical, etc), diminish value, >shadow-casting, etc? I'm not sure about shape, etc., but the intensity for the quickrender light can be set in preferences. Rob +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Rob Hounsell Internet: HOUNSELL@BNR.CA | | Team Leader: UNIX PHONE: (613) 765-2904 | | DMS System Performance Development ESN: 395-2904 | | Dept. 7D23 Bell Northern Research | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #137 ***************************************:-) Subject: PCV2.0 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 14:38:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Edwin Phillips Does anyone know if Imagine PC V2.0 will support 24 or 16bit color modes? All this talk about dithering has me thinking that I don't have Imagine using one of the modes. I never even thought to look at a render with an external viewer... probably looks lots better in 24 color ;-) Ed /****************************************************************************/ /* Ed Phillips flaregun@strauss.udel.edu University of Delaware */ /* Jr Systems Programmer (302) 831-6082 IT/Network and Systems Services */ /****************************************************************************/ +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #138 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: PCV2.0 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 16:44:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Cliff Lee On Thu, 22 Sep 1994, Edwin Phillips wrote: > Does anyone know if Imagine PC V2.0 will support 24 or 16bit > color modes? All this talk about dithering has me thinking that I don't > have Imagine using one of the modes. I never even thought to look at a > render with an external viewer... probably looks lots better in 24 color ;-) As I recall, it did. I know that 3.0 does. And your right, looking at the output from VPIC, or DISPLAY, or GDS, or CSHOW... lets you see it in 24 bits. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #139 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: PCV2.0 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 17:47:40 -0400 (EDT) From: David Olivares - PHAM/F94 On Thu, 22 Sep 1994, Edwin Phillips wrote: > > Does anyone know if Imagine PC V2.0 will support 24 or 16bit > color modes? All this talk about dithering has me thinking that I don't > have Imagine using one of the modes. I never even thought to look at a > render with an external viewer... probably looks lots better in 24 color ;-) Imagine PC v2.0 does support 24 and 16 bit modes, you change these under modify in the project editor. Mindflux. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #140 ***************************************:-) Subject: quickrender light distance. Date: Fri, 23 Sep 94 13:21:45 EST From: D.Haines@unsw.edu.au Yo Folks. With all the talk of the various aspects of quickrender light sources, one niggling question which has bugged me for years, since the beginning of 2.0 anyway,is - How far out from 0,0,0 is imagines quickrender light ? I understand the other aspects of quickrender lights- I thinks its been said, that the place to look is in the preferances editor for its intensity, colour etc but it would be great to know how far out from the centre the light sits, because sometimes those quickrenders get gorgeous lighting and it would be nice to emulate position etc in the stage. Of course, as has been said, the other way around this is to make your own and then use this same default lighting set up in the stage. While were on the lighting thing, I noticed some one saying that they made the spherical light really large.Does this have an effect, ie the size relationship to spherical objects, since I always thought they where the same intensity in any direction and so I never bother to work the size of spherical lights, only position - I only ask this, since in a program like this, it is sometimes easy to miss something as obvious etc. Ide love to see more lighting textures in a later version of imagine,that window texture is really beautifull. Depth of field is really easy in the quickrender requesters of stage and detail,and yields nice results- anyone figured out how to make the action editor depth of field work as painlessly as the quickrender functions.I am always confused by the options, partly because its a dual requester for stereo 3d etc, also there seems to be several differant ways to implement the depth of field functions. The doc is confusing,I am not a great mathematician.Sometimes I go the brute force random mode road, but lets face it, depth of field does slow things up, so this isnt the best aproach.. Help ! David Haines College of Fine Arts Phone: +61 +2 +339-9555 Fax: +61 +2 +339-9506 +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #141 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Lighting in QuickRender Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 00:50:27 -0400 From: Jason B Koszarsky >When you do a QuickRender (Imagine 2.0) Light colour & intensity is set in the preferences editor of Imagine. You do have the option to add your own light source to scene and turn off the quickrender lightsource. This way you have complete control. Jaeson K. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #142 ***************************************:-) Subject: QRender versus Project, by the way . . . Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 22:10:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike McCool Hey y'all, Case I didn't say this in a straightforward enough manner: I really LIKE the way the quickrender image looks, as opposed to the way it comes out in the Project Render. I want my final image to look that way, too. That's why I brought this up. And again, apologies for density. Osmium's got nothing on me . . . +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #143 ***************************************:-) Subject: QR versus ProjectRender, thanks Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 22:03:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike McCool Stirred up one with this query, and I'm certainly grateful for all the attention it has gotten. Dithering and lighting are the two points which come closest to making sense. But I'm still a little puzzled. Doesn't the Project Renderer work with dithering invoked by default? I certainly never touch that auto-dithering button. Forgive my density here, but I'm afraid I still haven't comprehended why a quickrender of my scene comes out looking so drastically different from my final render of that same scene. I don't have a 24bit board yet, so we're talking about Imagine's own internal viewers. I do my quickrender, Ham laced, in stage, and it displays automatically. My object has a nice grainy texture. I render the very scene in the Project editor, 24bit ILBM, Ham. I click on Show. I'm shown the same scene, but my object has lost its nice grainy texture and has that wave phenomenon all over the surfaces. I've even tried making both QR and ProjectRender ILBM or RGBN, it doesn't matter: the difference between the two images is still pronounced. Several of you mentioned 24bit display boards. Since I don't have one, does that mean my ordinary 1084S monitor is displaying a 24bit quickrender and a non-24bit Project Render? (Thanks again, folks, for spending so much time on this). +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #144 ***************************************:-) Subject: 3.1 ships! Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 05:36:00 -0500 From: gregory denby Hi all, Got the upgrade yesterday. It has: 1. "about" info lists version number explicitlly 2. All aspects of States except brushes now morphable(i.e. no built in 2D morphing) 3. Better DFX handling 4. BackDrop Images: loads PIC/ANIM/FLC frames as 1bit images to aid in placing objects while in the editors 5. Tackable ANIM/FLC brushes and ANIM/FLC as Global brushes 6. Preview PIC/ANIM/FLC from within Imagine 7. Field Rendering for the video perfectionist 8. Can now change object attributes while in Stage 9. Views from lights and objects, as well as from camera (good for placing shadows 10. Smart Bones, as reported earlier, assignment of faces to bones now much easier. 11. Starfield bug fixed 12. Jerky looping anim bug now fixed 13. Five new textures. I've tried fire and clouds, and they're waaayyyy cool, but boy do they eat up the clock cycles. 14. Nine new FX, mostly global it appears, and including a better Lens Flare. The docs are clear, but not compendious, but most of the improvements need no further explanation. Obviously a .1 upgrade, but a bit more edge on the tool. So I'm off to experiment. Greg Denby gregory.g.denby.1@nd.edu gdenby@twain.helios.nd.edu +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #145 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: QR versus ProjectRender, thanks Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 11:15:37 GMT0BST From: jamiek@hwcces.demon.co.uk (Jamie Knight) > Forgive my density here, but I'm afraid I still haven't > comprehended why a quickrender of my scene comes out looking so drastically > different from my final render of that same scene. Doesn't Quickrender use scanline rendering, as opposed to Trace? QR also omits some types of reflection, I think, so it will look different to a Project render, which uses whatever you specify (Trace or Scaline in the Project Modify requester) but includes all reflections and things. > I do my quickrender, Ham laced, in stage, and it displays > automatically. My object has a nice grainy texture. I render the very > scene in the Project editor, 24bit ILBM, Ham. I click on Show. I'm shown > the same scene, but my object has lost its nice grainy texture and has > that wave phenomenon all over the surfaces. I've even tried making both > QR and ProjectRender ILBM or RGBN, it doesn't matter: the difference > between the two images is still pronounced. That appears to be why QuickRender is faster than ProjectRender - it does less work. > Several of you mentioned 24bit display boards. Since I don't > have one, does that mean my ordinary 1084S monitor is displaying a 24bit > quickrender and a non-24bit Project Render? If QuickRender is set to HAM then the QR you see will be a dithered HAM image. As far as I can tell, Imagine always creates a 24-bit QuickRender, then dithers and hacks it around to display a HAM image. Try viewing the quickrender file in ViewTek or Rend24. > (Thanks again, folks, for spending so much time on this). That's OK, I probably don't know what I'm talking about anyway :) ----------------------------------------+--------------------------- Jamie Knight | jamiek@hwcces.demon.co.uk Environmental Services Computer Support | Hereford & Worcester County Council | Place mildly amusing quote, Worcester, UK | phrase or opinion here.. All views are my own, etc, etc | +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #146 ***************************************:-) Subject: QR versus ProjectRender, thanks Date: Fri, 23 Sep 94 14:26:43 CET From: cjo Mike McCool wrote; >I do my quickrender, Ham laced, in stage, and it displays >automatically. My object has a nice grainy texture. I render the very >scene in the Project editor, 24bit ILBM, Ham. I click on Show. I'm shown >the same scene, but my object has lost its nice grainy texture and has >that wave phenomenon all over the surfaces. Well, basically, this has already been answered but I'll try to explain it my own way (the beginner way, cause that's what I am). When you make a quickrender you make a dithered HAM image (dithering is a way to make soft shading from one nuance of a color to the next). This way you will get a soft ("unbanded") picture, even if you don't have a lot of "possible" colors (i e many bitplanes). HAM only has a possible 4096 colors. When you make a picture from "project" you make it 24-bit, and this is where your problem begins. 24-bit pics are great, they contain all the color information you could possibly wish for, but when viewing them from the project-editor you still have (only) a "standard" amiga-screen to view them on, wich means that the viewer will "strip" all the bits that it can't view. The viewer will not "autodither" the output, meaning that when you try to view a picture with "to many" colors in it, you will not get soft shadings. "Autodither" in the modify-requester in "project" means that when you render a picture with less than 16 000 000 colors (24-bits) the renderer will dither the "step" from one color of an object to the next, making the step smooth. Since a have never tried switching off the "autodither" I'm not quite sure wich way it works, but try the following for an example; 1. Set up a scene with objects that hasn't got any dithering (set the dither-attribute to 0 (zero) of all objects. 2. Switch off the "autodither". 3. Render a HAM-image from "project". 4. Save the result somewhere. 5. Modify all the objects in the scene to have full dithering (255). 6. Switch on the "autodither" again. 7. Render a new HAM-image. 8. Save this one as well. 9. View the pictures and compare them. The above is probably "double" work. You shouldn't have to switch off the dithering in "attributes" and "projects" both, but since I'm not sure wich way it works - and since I don't have my Amiga beside me to try it - I have played this the safe way. If this ain't right ... well, don't blame me. I said I'm a beginner :) ----------------------------------------------------------------- | Conny Joensson | Swedish Space Corp. Esrange | | Kiruna | Satellite operations - Telecom Div. | | Sweden | cjo@smtpgw.esrange.ssc.se | ----------------------------------------------------------------- +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #147 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: 3.1 ships! Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 14:26:10 +0100 From: MICHAEL RICHARDS In message <199409231036.FAA01083@twain.helios.nd.edu>, gregory denby writes: > > Hi all, > Got the upgrade yesterday. It has: [lots of cools stuff deleted] Is this an automatic upgrade to all registered users - or is this part of the Imagine $100 upgrade offer ? If its the latter, does anyone have some info on how to get hold of this offer ? I wrote to Impulse but I've heard nothing so far. Thanks in advance. Mike. You can reach Mike Richards at the following /@\ \|/ address ... (if you're that desperate). `-\ \ ______ - 0 - \ \/ ` / \ /|\ _ mhr@aber.ac.uk \_i / \ |\____// | |==| |=----/ ---- Why not drop me a line ...? -------------------hn/--hn/----------- +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #148 ***************************************:-) Subject: Yes, I know you can set your own lights in Detail ... Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 9:32:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Freundlich To all the people who responded to my post by saying "you can adjust the intensity and color of the QR Light in prefs, but hey, you can add your own light source and not use it at all": Thanks, but you misunderstand my question. I had an image come out *really* nice in QR with the default lightsource. I want to be able to stick lights into the Project to reproduce this. To do so, I need four things: 1. Color of light. Get it from Prefs 2. Intensity. Get it from prefs 3. Angle from camera. Look at the QR Lightsource box when it pops up. 4. Distance of light from the center of the view and/or world. Number 4 is what I can't figure out. I think I'm about the third person in the last couple of days to ask this, and we're all getting "put your own light in" style answers. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if this is a bit curt, it's been a h*ll of a day, and it's only 9:35 AM. --- Rob Freundlich, Senior Software Engineer | Some folks you don't have IDX Systems Corporation | to satirize, you just quote 'em. | - Tom Paxton, from "A Folk Amiga 4000/040. deal with it. | Singer's Guide to Usenet" +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #149 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: 3.1 ships! Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 06:58:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Petlig On Fri, 23 Sep 1994, MICHAEL RICHARDS wrote: > If its the latter, does anyone have some info on how to get > hold of this offer ? I wrote to Impulse but I've heard nothing so far. Like Michael, I too opted to wait until I saw some physical software before I outlay my $100. Someone please (Mike H.?) re-broadcast the Imagine upgrade deal, before many more of us buy Lightwave. And is the manual updated? Image Runner, sysop of Amiga Images // / BOOM, sooner or later, boom.\ Mr.Kelly Petlig \X/ \ finger address for BBS info / +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #150 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Quasi-marble texture Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 08:21:29 -0700 From: bmolsen@bvu-lads.loral.com (Brad Molsen) >I was trying to make a marble texture last night in Imagine 2.0 (no Essence) >and stumbled into something interesting. I made my object a pale white >(190-ish on all the RGB sliders), high Shiny value, high Hardness, low >Roughness, Specular just a few shades below the object color, ummm, possibly >others as well. > >I then applied two wood textures. The textures are rotated with respect to >each other. Both have very wide bands (and a low number of bands) and a large >Variation value (for "burl" effect, according to Understanding Imagine). The >color of each texture is a darker shade of grey than the object, and the two >textures have slightly different colors. > >My object is a dome-shape, and the result looks quite a bit like marble. Doing >the same with a black object and very dark shades gave a dark marble-ish look, >although I'm not entirely happy with it yet. > >When I get them finished, I'll post the images and objects to the net. > Rob, If you get an effect that you think looks the most marble-like, could you post the attribute settings to the list also? Thanks in advance, Brad xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Almond rocca?!! Ahhh..no thanks, I have a cat! Brad Molsen c/o LORAL bmolsen@bvu-lads.loral.com 13810 SE Eastgate Way Suite 500 (206) 957-3230 Bellevue, Wa 98005 Fax: (206) 746-1335 +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #151 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Yes, I know you can set your own lights in Detail ... Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 12:43:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike McCool Right on, Rob! That's what I'd like to be able to do: take a Stage-Editor-style peek at the configurations of camera and lighting for quickrender in the Detail Editor. But like Bette said in NOW VOYAGER, why ask for the moon, when we've got the stars? +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #152 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Yes, I know you can set your own lights in Detail ... Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 00:05:19 +0200 (MET DST) From: Jon Bagge On Fri, 23 Sep 1994, Rob Freundlich wrote: > Number 4 is what I can't figure out. I think I'm about the third person in th e > last couple of days to ask this, and we're all getting "put your own light in" > style answers. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO!!!!!!!!!! I always though QR put the light where the camera is by default. This would mean the distance is the same as the distance from the camera to the object. Only my .10 NOK worth. :-Jon +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #153 ***************************************:-) Subject: Using Fircracker24 w/IM3.0... Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 19:50:32 -0400 (EDT) From: jgoldman@acs.bu.edu Okay, I went to a local dealer today to check things out. They used to be Amiga, but have since gone PC/Mac. Consequently, their support for the Amiga has dropped to nothing. They do, however, have a whole bunch of cards and peripherals lying around. I scrounged and managed to discover a Firecracker 24 board lying among a pile of PC cards. Turns out the card was a demo out of a 2000. It has no software or docs. It's just the card. I asked one of the salespeople how much it was. He has no clue. He goes to another guy and "consults". The other guy swings around and says $30. I say, "I'll take it!!" I later discover there are no Amiga knowledgable people at this location anymore (they all quit). The salepeople that helped me obviously had no clue what I was attempting to purchase. You should have seen the look on the salesperson's face when, after quoting $30, he looked up the card in their database. He turns to me and says, "$30, so you'll be getting the board for $960 off." I could hardly contain my biiig smile... So, now I have this board. What do I do with it? I know Imagine can render directly to the Firecracker but have had no success so far. I've gone into Preferences and flipped the USFC flag to T. I've clicked the 'Use Firecracker' button in Project to on. So far nothing. I've got a Rev 2.1 board (that's what it says on the side). Should I be using specific presets? The manully says the the FC24 can be used with Quickrenders. How? Viewtek for Firecracker has confirmed that the FC24 board I have does indeed work. I have been able to display images via the FC24. I just haven't been able to use it with what I bought it for, Imagine... Anyone? On an aside, how good is Light24, or rather should I even bother getting the FC24 software? If it is worth getting how should I go about that? The FC24 has two ports, one 23 pin (RGB Video out), and one 15 pin port. Is the 15 pin port for a cable from the 24 pin Amiga out (something about a WB overlay thing)? J.----> E-Mail: jgoldman@acs.bu.edu +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #154 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: QR versus ProjectRender, thanks Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 18:17:40 -0600 (MDT) From: Roger Straub On Thu, 22 Sep 1994, Mike McCool wrote: > I do my quickrender, Ham laced, in stage, and it displays > automatically. My object has a nice grainy texture. I render the very > scene in the Project editor, 24bit ILBM, Ham. I click on Show. I'm shown > the same scene, but my object has lost its nice grainy texture and has > that wave phenomenon all over the surfaces. I've even tried making both > QR and ProjectRender ILBM or RGBN, it doesn't matter: the difference > between the two images is still pronounced. Do you have the Auto Dither switch on? If you do, Imagine will not dither an image generated in 24 bit. Hope this helps... See ya, Roger +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #155 ***************************************:-) Subject: RE: Imagine bug :( Date: Fri, 23 Sep 94 13:38:32 EST From: mrivers@tbag.tscs.com (Michael Rivers) >- Lockstated particles objects loose their textures Pick the Object, Fracture it with Scale Factor set to 1.0(Don't merge the object,because each face must NOT share any point/edge with another face) create a state with Shape checked, apply textures/brushmaps and specify the Lockstate. Create project using the particles. render.(may work for explode,fireworks etc.) ------------------------------------------------------- | Commodore failure. Press mouse button to continue | | Guru Meditation $83500000 task : $00000CBM | ------------------------------------------------------- A4000/060 wow! this is fast. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #156 ***************************************:-) id m0qoL8w-0006MLC; Fri, 23 Sep 94 20:39 EDT Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 20:39:10 +0100 From: Mark Jones Subject: Re: Quickrender versus Project To: Mike McCool Cc: imagine@email.sp.paramax.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII If you check the prefs menu item, you'll find preference settings for quickrender, which comes with Imagine set at the defaults of ham quarterscreen, scanline, etc. If you change these settings to accepted defaults, such as hires ham8 on AGA Amigas, you will get the same results as the Project rendering gives, which also means it will take longer. You can also change the default background color, which was blue in 2.0, and is now black in 3.0. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #157 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Lighting in QuickRender Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 20:22:33 -0700 (PDT) From: "Randy R. Wall" > When you do a QuickRender (Imagine 2.0), it asks you where you want the light > to be, in horizontal and vertical degrees. I've been wondering what the other > values of this quasi-light are. That is, what are its intensity, distance fro m > the object/"camera", shape (spherical, conical, etc), diminish value, > shadow-casting, etc? Well, the quickrender light is pretty basic, you can set up the intensity in the prefs editor, and if you want shadows you can set the prefs so that it will render in raytrace so you can have shadows. As for its location, I believe it defualts to the same as the camera, so when moving it horizontal and vertical you are moving it away from the camera in these degrees. > > This question is prompted by the "lighting" response to someone's question > about QR vs Project Render. When I read it I flashed back to last night when I > was trying to put a light into a scene to reproduce the QR image. Well, as I said I believe its in the same location as the camera, so to duplicate it in the stage or action editors you would need to place it at the same location and then move it X or Z, but not Y. If you plan on moving the camera I think you would have to Associate the light to the camera.. Hope this works, I think it will but have not tried it myself. =RRW= +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #158 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: 060 Availability Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 20:44:28 -0700 (PDT) From: "Randy R. Wall" Thanks for the info on the warp been thinking about it a lot, and I geuss I will waite too. > OK- Imagine time- Has anyone ever been able to get the Global Lens > Flare texture to work? Well this sounds like a problem someone else helped me with when I had a problem with it..did you copy the fixed versions from disk 1, it won't work unless you do..hehhe tahts all for now as theres not much sense in me trying to help if you don't have the correct version.. =RRW= +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #159 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: PCV2.0 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 20:48:43 -0700 (PDT) From: "Randy R. Wall" > > Does anyone know if Imagine PC V2.0 will support 24 or 16bit > have Imagine using one of the modes. I never even thought to look at a > render with an external viewer... probably looks lots better in 24 color ;-) I don't know about the PC version much, but am sure you can..I can also tell you that yes it looks thousands of times better...hehehe =RRW= +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #160 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: 3.1 ships! Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 21:15:08 -0700 (PDT) From: "Randy R. Wall" > > Hi all, > Got the upgrade yesterday. It has: Yep got mine today..going to play with it as soon as I'm off the phone..hehehe..Looks like its got everything they promised..and some extras too..Was hoping to see shadow mapping, but then they didn't promise that for this update..that was for the last update 3.0..sure hope they don't forget about it..as I think it would truely make Imagine a lot nicer if it had it. =RRW= +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #161 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: QR versus ProjectRender, thanks Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 20:54:17 -0700 (PDT) From: "Randy R. Wall" > Doesn't the Project Renderer work with dithering invoked by > default? I certainly never touch that auto-dithering button. well it will if you set it to in prefs, I don't remeber if it is set this way already, but I think its time to click the button and see how it works.. > I don't have a 24bit board yet, so we're talking about Imagine's > own internal viewers. Well, then dithering is the problem. If it still looks bad then its becuase you didn't save a quickrender with all the objects that are in the project and Specify it as your pallete so that you can get the best results out of the project renderings. > Several of you mentioned 24bit display boards. Since I don't > have one, does that mean my ordinary 1084S monitor is displaying a 24bit > quickrender and a non-24bit Project Render? Well, if you set the project to render in ILBM-24 then you will desplay a 16 color highRes picture if you are on anything other than a 1200 or 4000, but you could load it into a paint program or image proccesing program as ADPro to see how it looks in ham. Otherwise just set it to ILBM-12 and Ham and possibly Lace to be able to view it in the project editor. If your quickrender is set to ILBM-24 you could get a Ham version desplay depending on how the view mode is set in prefs. You can simulate any of these in the projects simply by selecting it from the preset list. =RRW= +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #162 ***************************************:-) Subject: GENLOCK Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 16:59:32 +1200 (NZST) From: Michael Hazlett Subject: Genlock's I have a few questions about Imagine 3.0's genlocking capabilities, they seem to have disappeared! 1) What happened to the "use genlock" button on the brush requestor? If I nothing happens, the object is still rendered 2) What happened to the "genlock" attribute button, it seems to have gone... With this feature in 2.0 , you could assign any attributes to an object, click "genlock" and it would be rendered in colour 0, BUT the objects true attributes would still reflect in other objects, Very cool :) With this feature gone I feel Imagine 3.0 has lost a lot of usefullness. 3) When using the coverdisk version of Imagine 2.0 , my machine crashes as soon as it 'hits' an object with the "use genlock" set. Has anyone else had any luck with this? 4) The same version won't accept any brushes with over 32 colours! !t just says "error loading..." but the same brushes will work in im3.0 I am using an A1200 with A1230+ 40/40/8 acclerator, the genlock is a GVP G-lock. 5) Why do im3.0 background colour zero colours not genlock? Imagine seems to black,0,0,0 ( colour zero) in the 2nd position of the palette, so It will not genlock. I have set the genc colours and background colours to 0,0,0 I have called Impulse about this but he didnt know what was talking about. Does anyone else out there use G-Lock, I would like to hear from you, esp. about the AA/ECS features which I still havent gotten to grips with. Cheers, Robbie . c/o Mike. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #163 ***************************************:-) Subject: Using Fircracker24 w/IM3.0... Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 01:42:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Blaquiere I have a Firecracker24, and praise the Lord every time I use Imagine. (No small feat for an atheist) If you tell Imagine to use the FC24, it will automatically display whatever it is rendering, with the Amiga display overlaid on top of the 24-bit image! This means you don't have to wait for quickrenders to finish before noticing something's wrong, and with full 24-bit display, you'll get a much better look at what's wrong, too. I can't recall whether the board needed anything special to work with Imagine; I installed the software that came with it, and that was 2-3 years ago. I did check, however, and in my libs: directory is fc24.library; that sounds like something Imagine would need to talk to the FC24. I suggest phoning Impulse and asking them about it. There may be better boards, with better software, but for Imagine diehards, nothing beats a FC24. (Oops, I just remembered -- Opalvision works with Imagine, too) +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #164 ***************************************:-) Subject: thanks for QR versus Project help Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 23:11:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike McCool Hey y'all, Well, thanks to everyone's generous input, I figured out what the difference was, between my QR'd image and the one I rendered in Project. It's that the Quickrender is 12bit, and I was rendering everything in Project in 24bit, which my standard amiga display converts to a weirdly dithered ham. The specific project I was working on, the object in question actually came out looking better on my machine in 12bit. It's supposed to be this sort of bunker, converted into a saloon on the moon, and I wanted it to have that soft concrete grainy look it has in quickrender. Thanks everyone, for making me think this one through. It's also made me wonder if it's not about time to go 24bit board and multi-sync. Output to video is my main priority . . . anybody got any suggestions? I would imagine J Goldman got the last amazing deal on a 24bit board, at least on this side of the galaxy. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #165 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: 3.1 BUG! Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 00:29:59 -0700 (PDT) From: "Randy R. Wall" > > Yep got mine today..going to play with it as soon as I'm off the > phone. > =RRW= Well I messed around in 3.1 and right off the bat I wanted to see how the new bones commands worked. Well I hate to report bugs, but heres one I think everyone who gets 3.1 will find out after trying the new bones commands. The new bones feature works quite nice, and does make it a bit easier but there is a problem that could get some folks confused, as I know there are already plenty of people who are already confused.. Anyways, here is the bug as well as an easy way to get around it until Impulse fixes it..Basically you can now make your subgroups in Pick Faces mode and then select either MK. Sm.Bone Subgroup or MK. BigBone Subgroup and just select the axis you want them to be applied to. This does save a few steps in the process. But what is wrong with it is if you select MK. Big Bone Subgroup it names the subgroup AXIS.SB, if you select MK. Sm.Bone Subgroup it names the subgroup AXIS.BB. In other words it sets them incorrectly, MK. Big Bone Subgroup. makes small bone subgroups and MK. Sm. Bone Subgroup makes Big bone subgroups. I geuss the guy who wrote the 3.0 bones tutorial must of had something to do with this..just joking.. The way I have gotten around this so I don't get cunfused is I have set up two new gadgets for each command and just named them correctly on my gadgets, this elemenates any problems. But if you plan on using the Functions menu in the Make sub-menu to use these commands you will have to remember that they work opposite of what they are labeled as...Anyways hope this help save some of you the trouble of figuring this out on your own...Though I'm sure you will want to check it out for yourselves.. later... =RRW= +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #166 ***************************************:-) Subject: New Lens Flare Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 06:02:02 -0500 From: gregory denby Jason Koszarsky asked me: >...does it still cause a flare even if the light is hidden behind an > object? to quote the docs: "This version of Lens Flare operates exactly the same as the older version (GlblFlar.ifx) except that this flare IS blocked by objects and is sensitive to transparent objects..." Haven't had the time to try it myself, having chewed up lots of time playing with the new fire texture. Congratulations Scott K.! This is one of the most complex shape variation I've seen. Really looks like a blow torch. And Randy Wall, thanks for the tip about the bones screw-up. Somebody must be going "Oh, duh?" Greg Denby gregory.g.denby.1@nd.edu gdenby@twain.helios.nd.edu +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #167 ***************************************:-) Subject: Firecracker24 Date: Sun, 25 Sep 94 21:10:00 UTC From: w.graham6@genie.geis.com FC24s do indeed work in 3000s and 4000s too. In my 3000, though, I did have to bend the back plate in order for the board to fit. The board is 15.5mhz output, in other words, it'll work on a 1084 just fine, but not on a high scan rate monitor. The two ports work with a special cable that'll allow you overlay your workbench over the FC24's output, but this only works on a slow scan monitor. I reccomend a two monitor setup, like I have with my 3000. That way, I use my 1950 for a work screen, and a 1084 for 24bit out- put. Also, this configuration works very well with Vista Pro, Image F/X, and ADPro. I agree with the other poster, that if you are serious about Imagine on an Amiga, a FC24 is indispensible. Traces render to it pixel by pixel, and scanlines go scanline by scanline. It supports all the standard Amiga display modes, except hi res non-interlaced. With a two monitor display and a screen grabber, I also use it for a second perspective view, helpful in those difficult editing situations. In addition to the .lib mentioned by the other poster, there are some other c directory things included on the FC24 disk that you'll need, so I would call Impulse and see about getting the disk. The paint program is sorta out of date, but it does have the neatest blending tool I've ever seen, and since it's a zorro board, it'll scroll super bitmaps very nicely. Once you get all the needed software, there are some changes in Imagine's preferences you'll have to make in order to get the board to work with Quickrenders, and stuff. Make sure that QUIK is set to Firecracker 384 (as is mine) or some other legal name found in the rend- ering presets. QUFF should be set to RGB8. USFC should be set to True. And OPAL should be set to false. Also, if the Use Firecracker button on the project editor screen is not on, you'll get no visible quickrender in the other editors. Good Luck (and what a good deal!)......Bill Graham +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #168 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: IM3.1 and Field Rendering Date: Sun, 25 Sep 94 15:32:00 +0100 From: dsan@cindy.ct.se (Dan Santos) In a message of 25 Sep 94 Steve J. Lombardi wrote to me: SJL> FIrst Off if anyone else out there is using a Sanyo GVR, you will need SJL> to use the 'Reverse Fields' checkbox in subproject requestor. THe SJL> results are super smooth animation at the cost of double the render SJL> time. SJL> Now a question. I hope this doesn't start another 6 week thread about SJL> field rendering :-) SJL> Can someone in 200 words or less explain why field rendering has to SJL> take twice as long?? It seems that instead of rendering a full SJL> resolution odd frame and a full resolution even frame and then SJL> combining every other scan line from the 2 images that imagine could SJL> calculate every other line from odd/even and combine them. SJL> Although the results are super smooth, for most of my work doubling SJL> the render time is out of the question. Will someone clear this up for SJL> me. thanks. This isn't suppose to happen... I don't have 3.1, but field-rendering shouldn't take twice as long. I'm using 3.0, and I always double the amount of frames in any final render in order to create field-rendering using ADPro. THIS takes double the rendering time since I still have to render full frames (752*576). Field rendering is archieved by rendering twice the amount of frames, but only at half resolution (in my case 752*288), so the rendering time remains almost the same. If Imagine is taking twice the rendering time, it's probably still rendering full frames, but discarding one of the fields when the frame is rendered. I hope you're wrong... SJL> saint lombo Dan Santos (dsan@cindy.ct.se) DigiLight Studios - 3D Animation & Image effects - +46-40-138678 +-------------------------------+---------------------------+----------------- ----------+ |A3000-040/A4000-040/PicassoII |SGI Indigo Elan, ALIAS PA 5|Abekas A65/DPS-PAR (Amiga) | |Real 3D 2.x/Imagine 3.x/Essence|Liberty, Elastic Reality |Sony D2/1"C/BetaSP VTRs | +-------------------------------+---------------------------+----------------- ----------+ +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #169 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: New Lens Flare Date: Sun, 25 Sep 94 16:28:00 +0100 From: dsan@cindy.ct.se (Dan Santos) In a message of 24 Sep 94 gregory denby wrote to me: gd> Haven't had the time to try it myself, having chewed up lots of time gd> playing with the new fire texture. Congratulations Scott K.! This is gd> one of the most complex shape variation I've seen. Really looks like a gd> blow torch. What? Fire? Fire! FIRE!!! Hehe-hee-eh. Is there a fire texture with 3.1? Is it better than the fire Steve Worley made with the three Essence textures (he showed how in the APEX Newsletter a while ago). Dan Santos (dsan@cindy.ct.se) DigiLight Studios - 3D Animation & Image effects - +46-40-138678 +-------------------------------+---------------------------+----------------- ----------+ |A3000-040/A4000-040/PicassoII |SGI Indigo Elan, ALIAS PA 5|Abekas A65/DPS-PAR (Amiga) | |Real 3D 2.x/Imagine 3.x/Essence|Liberty, Elastic Reality |Sony D2/1"C/BetaSP VTRs | +-------------------------------+---------------------------+----------------- ----------+ +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #170 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: 060 Availability Date: Sun, 25 Sep 94 16:21:00 +0100 From: dsan@cindy.ct.se (Dan Santos) In a message of 22 Sep 94 BOCONNELL wrote to me: B> OK- Imagine time- Has anyone ever been able to get the Global Lens Flare B> texture to work? Sure, works great. There was a faulty texture, but there's a replacement that works fine. I only miss a starfilter to go with it, but maybe this would make Imagine pictures look Lightwave-made, God forbid :). Dan Santos (dsan@cindy.ct.se) DigiLight Studios - 3D Animation & Image effects - +46-40-138678 +-------------------------------+---------------------------+----------------- ----------+ |A3000-040/A4000-040/PicassoII |SGI Indigo Elan, ALIAS PA 5|Abekas A65/DPS-PAR (Amiga) | |Real 3D 2.x/Imagine 3.x/Essence|Liberty, Elastic Reality |Sony D2/1"C/BetaSP VTRs | +-------------------------------+---------------------------+----------------- ----------+ +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #171 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: help! rotating objects Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 19:23:01 -0700 (PDT) From: "Randy R. Wall" > I'm new to imagine and am having trouble rotating objects. This may > have > somthing to do with the fact that I have the version from a cover > disk, but I'm not sure. Well, if you want to rotate the object in the stage, its quite easy..say you have a 10 frame animation and at frame one the object has no rotations on it..to rotate it in in ten frame press RightAmiga_C for and type 10. This is the goto requester in the stage..anyways this will put you at frame 10. Now select the object with the mouse and press the "r" key, now depending on which way you want to rotate it press x,y, or z, and move the mouse while holding the left button. Once you have it at the rotation you like just hit the spacebar..now in order for these setting to be recorded to your staging file you need to go to the Object menu and select Alignment Bar and the press RightAmiga_S to save it to the file. Now when you render this the object will rotate threwout the ten frames to the alignment you set in frame ten. Hope this gets helps? =RRW= +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #172 ***************************************:-) Subject: IM3.1 and Field Rendering Date: Sat, 24 Sep 94 23:14:57 EDT From: "Steve J. Lombardi" FIrst Off if anyone else out there is using a Sanyo GVR, you will need to use the 'Reverse Fields' checkbox in subproject requestor. THe results are super smooth animation at the cost of double the render time. Now a question. I hope this doesn't start another 6 week thread about field rendering :-) Can someone in 200 words or less explain why field rendering has to take twice as long?? It seems that instead of rendering a full resolution odd frame and a full resolution even frame and then combining every other scan line from the 2 images that imagine could calculate every other line from odd/even and combine them. Although the results are super smooth, for most of my work doubling the render time is out of the question. Will someone clear this up for me. thanks. saint lombo +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #173 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: help! rotating objects Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 19:45:53 -0600 (MDT) From: Roger Straub On Sat, 24 Sep 1994, Darryl Lewis wrote: > What I want do do is rotate an object around its x axis, then rotate it > around its y axis. I need this for a game I'm writting, and wanted to use > imagine to generate the images used. I have the objects already. > I need to have the object viewed in all directions so it appears that the > space ship is actuall in space and can be viewed from all directions as the > user 'flyies around it'. If you're going for a preset animation sequence, I recomend using the Rotate effects in the Action editor. Load up Imagine, select 'new' from the Project menu, name it anything you want, and then press enter. Select 'Action' from the Project menu, set the number of frames, but add one to this number(I'll explain later), and load in your spaceship object. Then click on Add, and double click on the ship's F/X channel(any one). A file requester will pop up. Go to the drawer you keep your effects in(usually called 'Effects') and pick the Rotate effect(mine is named Rotate20). Set the ending frame # to about half of the max frame #. Click on the 'X Axis' check box, and make sure that the degrees text box reads 360. Then click on OK, go to the frame directly after the first rotate effect ends, and double click. Set the ending frame # to the last frame of the animation(including the +1 at the end), click on the 'Y Axis' check box, and make sure the degrees text box reads 360. Click on OK. Add your lightsources, save, and set things up the way you want them to be in the Stage Editor. Save it, and go to the Project Editor. Select Range, and change the ending frame number to one less than it defaults to. This is to work around an Imagine quirk. When you rotate something 360 degrees, Imagine will take the object's starting alignment (just before the rotation takes place) and sets that to the end of the rotation. This produces a jerky motion at the end of the animation if it is a looping one. The object will have the same alignment on the last frame as it does on the first. To work around this, all we have to do is not render the last frame, and the animation will be as smooth as a baby's bottom. Then select Generate. The computer will do all the work, but if the animation is an EXTREMELY long one, or your machine isn't as fast as it could be, or the render size is very large, the rendering time will be EXTREMELY LONG. Some of mine have gone for a week or more. If you're going for interactivity, like the player can actually move the mouse and the camera moves around the ship, I couldn't help ya unless I told you to render a frame for each degree marking in two axes(360 * 360 =129600 frames), but that would be ludicrous, besides the fact that you would have to distribute the game on a hard drive, and that the update times would be awful. Maybe someone else could help you there. See ya, Roger +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #174 ***************************************:-) Subject: subscro i[t iption request Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 18:19:56 -0400 (EDT) From: CYBERCLOWN@delphi.com please include me on your subscription list - I have just started using Imagine 2.20 on 16 meg 66mgz Pentium and would like to get  learn and do morew with ohrether Imagine users. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #175 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: New Lens Flare Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 18:28:02 -0700 (PDT) From: "Randy R. Wall" > And Randy Wall, thanks for the tip about the bones screw-up. Somebody > must be going "Oh, duh?" Ya I would think so..makes me wonder if they ever beta tested it at all, as this is a pretty obvious problem. I would think one try of it would have revieled the problem as it did with me..anyways the fix I mentioned works fine until they correct it. I imagine most people would want these set up as gadgets anyways so its really no big deal. And it does make bones easier. =RRW= +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #176 ***************************************:-) Subject: help! rotating objects Date: Sat, 24 Sep 94 13:43:51 1100 From: Darryl_Lewis@comlink.mpx.com.au (Darryl Lewis) Hi, I'm new to imagine and am having trouble rotating objects. This may have somthing to do with the fact that I have the version from a cover disk, but I'm not sure. What I want do do is rotate an object around its x axis, then rotate it around its y axis. I need this for a game I'm writting, and wanted to use imagine to generate the images used. I have the objects already. I need to have the object viewed in all directions so it appears that the space ship is actuall in space and can be viewed from all directions as the user 'flyies around it'. What I was after is a way (or a scriptfile) so I can leave my machine to do the images while I'm at work to save time. If someone can help me, I'll give them equal credit space on the title screen of the game!! The game is 95 % written, except for the bobs! I'll even send a copy of the game! If your interested Let me know! Please help - I'm stuck Darryl -- Via DLG Pro v1.0 +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #177 ***************************************:-) Subject: Quickrender Idea Date: Sat, 24 Sep 94 13:05:00 PDT From: KEN_ROBERTSON@robelle.com If you like the lighting s much in your quickrender, simply change the size (using prefs) to be the one you want, and render away. If you don't have enough ram you can always quickrender to disc. Too bad if you are depending upon the lighting for an animation, tho. \KenR imagine@email.sp.paramax.com +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #178 ***************************************:-) Subject: GENLOCK Date: Sat, 24 Sep 94 16:49:00 -0100 From: torgeir.holm@tbc.bbs.no (Torgeir Holm) >Subject: Genlock's >I have a few questions about Imagine 3.0's genlocking capabilities, the >seem to have disappeared! >1) What happened to the "use genlock" button on the brush requestor? If >nothing happens, the object is still rendered The "use genlock" button makes color 0 of the brush transparent, enabling non rectangular brushmaps. >2) What happened to the "genlock" attribute button, it seems to have >gone... With this feature in 2.0 , you could assign any attributes to >an object, click "genlock" and it would be rendered in colour 0, BUT >the objects true attributes would still reflect in other objects, >Very cool :) With this feature gone I feel Imagine 3.0 has lost a lot >of usefullness. No idea :( >3) When using the coverdisk version of Imagine 2.0 , my machine crashes >soon as it 'hits' an object with the "use genlock" set. Has anyone else >had any luck with this? Same thing happened to me in 2.0. It works in 2.9 and 3.0 though. >4) The same version won't accept any brushes with over 32 colours! !t j >says "error loading..." but the same brushes will work in im3.0 This has to do with the AGA chipset. before AGA you couldn't have more than 32 colors in a brush (EHB is not really 64 colors), so there was no need for imagine to accept 256 color brushes. >5) Why do im3.0 background colour zero colours not genlock? Imagine see >to black,0,0,0 ( colour zero) in the 2nd position of the palette, so >It will not genlock. I have set the genc colours and background colours >to 0,0,0 I don't really know much about genlocks, but there is something in prefs about genlock color. Try it. Torge!r torgeir.holm@tbc.bbs.no ---- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | The BYTE Castle - 6988 3700 / 6988 4100 - Askim, Norway - Info-board | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #179 ***************************************:-) Subject: Pyramid Date: Sun, 25 Sep 94 17:36:14 EDT From: mtucibat@cris.com (Mike Tucibat) On 9-21, Milan wrote: Also I found a bug: try to make a mathematical pyramid: add primitive sphere with 3 circle sections and 1 vertical section, hit ok, and render a flashing guru mediation. =========================== Hi Milan, When I tried that, it just hung my machine (A3000, 18 meg). Of course, it works fine if you try it with a cone... And somebody recently wrote about wishing for a star filter. LensFlar.itx from 2.9 along with FireBall.itx has given me excellent results. I want my 3.1!!! -mikeT mtucibat@cris.com +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #180 ***************************************:-) Subject: Batch Proc. Date: Sun, 25 Sep 1994 22:21:49 -0600 (MDT) From: MAD MAX Does anybody have an arexx script that woud convert imagine pictures into an ANIM file format using ADpro ?? I've made a little animation using imagine 3.0 onmy A4000/04 and I want to send the animation to a friend of mine. Hesham Amiri +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #181 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Using Fircracker24 w/IM3.0... Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 01:33:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Bush Doktor On Fri, 23 Sep 1994 jgoldman@acs.bu.edu wrote: Good deal deleted! > So, now I have this board. What do I do with it? I know > Imagine can render directly to the Firecracker but have had no success > so far. I've gone into Preferences and flipped the USFC flag to > T. I've clicked the 'Use Firecracker' button in Project to on. So far > nothing. I've got a Rev 2.1 board (that's what it says on the > side). Should I be using specific presets? The manully says the the > FC24 can be used with Quickrenders. How? You have to go into prefs & set QR to one of the firecracker presets. (384 or whatever one you want) If you are working on a project, make sure you pick a firecracker preset size. It's the button below where you choose if you want trace or scanline. I'm guessing you have the cables plugged in correct. ;-) > On an aside, how good is Light24, or rather should I even > bother getting the FC24 software? If it is worth getting how should I > go about that? Most other paint programs are better. Light24's QR of a object was it's only real value. ************************************************************************* Jah Radio Sundays 6-12pm K.U.O.R. 89.1fm Host: BUSH DOKTOR **********************\ University of Dreadlands /********************** sppcarso@ultrix.uor.edu\ Blowing the FULL watts /sppcarso@ultrix.uor.edu over nineteen years! +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #182 ***************************************:-) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 02:06:16 +1000 From: imagine-relay@email.sp.paramax.com Hi people, somebody asked for a star filter, well the star.itx texture I sent a few days ago (uuencoded) is just that, you can set the number of points as well as the color of the edges. Don't use the star.itx I uploaded earlier though, it has a bug. Let your Imagination run wild, Milan +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #183 ***************************************:-) Subject: I3.1 Date: Mon, 26 Sep 94 11:19:27 EST From: mrivers@tbag.tscs.com (Michael Rivers) Can someone post what the new textures and effects in 3.1 are and a short description of what they do and how well they work? Thanks, Mike (I don't have an 060:) ------------------------------------------------------- | Commodore failure. Press mouse button to continue | | Guru Meditation $83500000 Task : $00000CBM | ------------------------------------------------------- A4000/060 wow! this is fast. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #184 ***************************************:-) Subject: Bones tutorials dates for retrieval Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 08:45:43 -0700 From: bmolsen@bvu-lads.loral.com (Brad Molsen) To all, There has been so many inquiries about the "bones tutorial" that I took some time last night and found my copies so I could give out the dates they were posted so they could be retrieved from the Aminet archives. I say tutorials because there are really two, one from Lesk titled "My bones trouble" posted 5/13/94 and one that corrects and clarifies Lesks' from Mark Decker titled "Bones lessons learned" posted 5/18/94. I have the hard copies here at work so I know the titles and dates are correct. I don't have 3.0 yet:( but, I pulled them off the list for future use. Myself and a friend that does have 3.0 tried them out and they do work! Since I am at work I can't take the time to get them again out of the archives but, I hope someone out there could help out and get them out of the archives and repost them. Thanks again to Lesk and Mark for posting them in the first place. regards, Brad xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Almond rocca?!! Ahhh..no thanks, I have a cat! Brad Molsen c/o LORAL bmolsen@bvu-lads.loral.com 13810 SE Eastgate Way Suite 500 (206) 957-3230 Bellevue, Wa 98005 Fax: (206) 746-1335 +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #185 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Pyramid Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 11:30:00 -0600 (MDT) From: Douglas Rudd > On 9-21, Milan wrote: > > > Also I found a bug: > > try to make a mathematical pyramid: add primitive sphere with > 3 circle sections and 1 vertical section, hit ok, and render > a flashing guru mediation. > =========================== > > Hi Milan, > > When I tried that, it just hung my machine (A3000, 18 meg). > Of course, it works fine if you try it with a cone... > > And somebody recently wrote about wishing for a star filter. > LensFlar.itx from 2.9 along with FireBall.itx has given me > excellent results. > > I want my 3.1!!! > > -mikeT > mtucibat@cris.com I tried this on 3.0 with my 3000 and it hung. Tried it on 3.1 and it said illegal parameters-much nicer. Doug Rudd rudd@plk.af.mil ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Amiga Guide to the Galaxy refers to Commodore's management as "A bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first to be lined up against the wall and shot when the revolution comes." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- They will get my Amiga from me when the pry it from my cold, dead hands. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #186 ***************************************:-) Subject: States Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 14:26:00 -0400 From: brett.jones@canrem.com (Brett Jones) Hello fellow Imagineers! I've been fooling around with States for the first time. After spending about 8 hours trying to get an object to change thru 6 different states I've discovered a few things! One is that the States option of morphing doesn't keep track of changes of the objects axis sizes. Not a big deal though, just remember to rescale all versions of your various objects axis to match the axis size of the one that will be your locked starting State. I've managed to fracture a disk as an object, and to do it at different settings. The geometry flows beautifully over a 180 frame animation going from one state to another. However, I can't seem for the life of me, to get different textures to morph as well as the geometry? Does anyone else who is privy to some "State Secrets" know how to achieve this? I've tried endless permutations of what the manual suggests (hints at I should say) and the only result is that the texture applied with the first (Locked) state stays with the object all the way through the animation. It won't morph to a different texture. Is it possible that this is impossible? Can I morph settings of just one texture only, through various State changes? Eager to know ! Thanks Brett J. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #187 ***************************************:-) Subject: QR versus ProjectRender, thanks Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 13:59:00 -0400 From: david.wyand@canrem.com (David Wyand) Hi Mike! > I do my quickrender, Ham laced, in stage, and it displays >automatically. My object has a nice grainy texture. I render the very >scene in the Project editor, 24bit ILBM, Ham. I click on Show. I'm shown >the same scene, but my object has lost its nice grainy texture and has >that wave phenomenon all over the surfaces. I've even tried making both >QR and ProjectRender ILBM or RGBN, it doesn't matter: the difference >between the two images is still pronounced. I think I've noticed your problem by your above description. If you are using Laced HAM as your quickrender, why not do the same for the Project? When creating the project, choose from one of the defaults; namely, the Laced HAM one. This will set the mode to 12bit ILBM (which is HAM) and the Laced button should be clicked. What is happening is that your are choosing the 24-bit option bu probably don't have the Auto Dither button depressed. This causes the picture to be displayed in HAM mode but with no dithering, hence the 'wave phenomenon' you describe. I think that the best way around all this is to just render in 12-bit ILBM as described above. Of course, if you had ADPro, you could take the 24-bit image and convert it to HAM, but no guarentees as to the likeness to the quickrender picture. This is how I do it, though, for the final render at least. -Dave david.wyand@canrem.com Questions? Just ask... +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #188 ***************************************:-) Subject: Random PC questions Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 12:57:41 -0700 From: Christopher Ivan Morris Hello fellow Imagineers, I've recently shifted platforms from the Amiga to a PC. I've got a few questions from watching the mailing list for the past year... 1) Is anyone running Imagine successfully on a 90 MHz Pentium? This is the machine I'd like to get if possible, but I had heard a few Pentium/Imagine interaction complaints. 2) Does anyone know of any other good PC anim-building utils that support the creation of some anim formats other than FLC? (such as MPEG, AVI, etc.) 3) Any video-accelerator card/Imagine horror stories out there? I've had problems with a miroCrystal 8s because it's not VESA compiant. 4) Any one know a good dealer (and price) for the PC version of the DPS PAR card? Many thanks in advance for your time. I can be reached at morric@leland.stanford.edu if neccesary. Chris +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #189 ***************************************:-) Subject: DXF conversion Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:30:21 -0600 (MDT) From: Douglas Rudd Well, I have to say my hat's off to Impulse. IM3.1 has been a definite improvement in DXF conversion! I was able to import some humanoid objects that Interchange and even Autodesk's DXF3DS conversion package had barfed on before. First time in, no tweeking. Good work, Impulse! Now if only the humanoid objects had been worth all the effort :/ Doug Rudd rudd@plk.af.mil ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Amiga Guide to the Galaxy refers to Commodore's management as "A bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first to be lined up against the wall and shot when the revolution comes." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- They will get my Amiga from me when the pry it from my cold, dead hands. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #190 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Random PC questions Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 17:51:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Cliff Lee On Mon, 26 Sep 1994, Christopher Ivan Morris wrote: > 2) Does anyone know of any other good PC anim-building > utils that support the creation of some anim formats other than > FLC? (such as MPEG, AVI, etc.) I've used a shareware program called DTA (Dave's Targa Animator). It has plenty of options and the price is right. Works well with just about any resolution I've tried (320 x 200 to 1024 x 768). Should be at all your finer graphic FTP sites. I've used a program called DISPLAY (current version I know of is 1.8) that will display and decompose. I don't know if it will compose the animation files. I've used it to decompse a mpg. Must have. Probrably found at the same place you will find DTA... Cliff Lee cel@tenet.edu "You can always make up a class, You can never make up a party!" +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #191 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Random PC questions Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 20:40:23 -0700 From: "Daniel T. Edwards" I use Imagine 3.0 on a 90Mhz Pentium. It has a Western Digital PCI bus video card with two megs RAM. I have experienced absolutely no problems with this setup and Imagine. In the last three months, Imagine 3.0 crashed once.... just once (and I know it was my fault!) Even though PCI is not VESA, all the imagine viewmodes are present. The only thing I miss is multitasking and downtime. One day, Os/2 will run Imagine in a full screen DOS session. (hope..hope..) ____________________________________________________________ / \ | Pentium - 90Mhz James R. Walker | | PCI Bus dedwards@pogonip.scs.unr.edu | | 16Mb RAM ______________________________________________| | 420Mb Hard / Please note my new e-mail address | | Imagine 3.0 | I've installed OS/2 52 times. I use Windows. | \____________________________________________________________/ +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #192 ***************************************:-) Subject: RE: HALO AROUND LIGHT IN IMAGINE Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 01:02:42 -0400 From: af330@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Stephane Payette) On Sep 18, Steve J. Lombardi wrote: > I'm trying to get a nice halo of light to appear around > a light in imagine. let me explain. the scene is pretty dark. just > some ambiant light. at one end of the room is a red emergency light > flashing. when the camera looks at the light, I want the area around the > light to glow. I've tried a few things without getting nice > results. ANy suggestions?? If it helps, I've got the essence textures. > thanks. > steve lombardi > stlombo@acm.rpi.edu Hi Steve! If you have Milan's Star texture, doing this will be quite easy. Put a plane in front of your emergency light; give it black color; load the star texture into it; keep the star radius parameter a little bit lower than the center radius, and enter 0 for the number of points. Put the edges red & render! There you go: halo as good as in Lightwave! BTW, if you just want a glow, do the same exept give the object some color. This will make the glow as nice as in Lightwave! -- ------------------------------- Stephane Payette video & 3D animations af330@freenet.carleton.ca +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #193 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: New Lens Flare Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 22:19:02 -0700 (PDT) From: "Randy R. Wall" > What? Fire? Fire! FIRE!!! Hehe-hee-eh. Is there a fire texture with 3.1? Is it > better than the fire Steve Worley made with the three Essence textures (he > showed how in the APEX Newsletter a while ago). Well I haven't put them side by side but can tell you this it is really really nice! and animatable too. =RRW= +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #194 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Pyramid Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 22:24:18 -0700 (PDT) From: "Randy R. Wall" > > Also I found a bug: Well, if this is bug report time, I geuss I'll warn you not to try the Global effect Melt as it will crash you quite nicely too. At least it does me every time. > I want my 3.1!!! Well, send your $100.00 in and I'm sure Impulse will be glad to send you a copy, that is if your a regestered user of 3.0. =RRW= +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #195 ***************************************:-) Subject: Widescreen movies Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 17:17:48 +1200 (NZST) From: Michael Hazlett Can some kind Imagineer help me out?? I'm having problems creating Widescreen movie format..in the FAQ v5 it says " Besides making for some neat looking animations, this will also lower rendering times. For a render that would normally be 768x482 or so, make it 768x380. Leave the ratio just as it is (6:7). Any where from 380-330 or so will look pretty good. " Ok so I did this ...my pic is 640 x 410 (Originally 640x512) but the finished pic only has a black strip at the bottom of the screen. :( Any ideas guys?? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- + ________ | ___________________________________STAR____________ / | . * . WARS . \ | / \ * . . | | . \0/ . . * | | | | Michael Hazlett . * | | P /^\ Earthlight Communications . . | | _/ \/ \ Dunedin, New Zealand | | / |\ \ * . | | / / tarkin@earthlight.co.nz . | \______________________________________________________________/ \ Imagine object creator - Especially Star Wars objects :) / ------------------------------------------------------------ +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #196 ***************************************:-) Subject: Repost of Bones Tutorial (LONG) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 11:47:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Wayne Haufler Since many of us are interested in this Bones Tutorial, and have been asking for it, and since I found it in the archive, (thanks to the previous poster who gave a reference to it), I am posting it now for you. Here it is. To keep it short, I took the liberty of correcting the original Bones Tutorial based on the followup messages. These corrections are noted in [] brackets. I hope I did this right. I have not yet played much with bones, myself. Thanks to Lesk, Rosario Salfi, and Drew Vogel for their parts in this. Sorry if this long message causes any problems. __ \\ /\\ /\\ //_ Wayne A. Haufler [Christian/SW Engineer/XWindows/Amigan] \/--\// \//__ haufler@sugar.neosoft.com // Unisys Space Systems - Shuttle Operations Contract Hobby: "Computer Animations For Christian Endeavors" GodlyGraphics mailing list: GG-request@acs.harding.edu ----------:x Cut Here --------------------------------------------------- >From imagine-relay@email.sp.paramax.com Fri May 13 20:45:52 1994 Message-Id: <9405132215.AA02997@email.sp.paramax.com> Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 16:19:34 -0700 To: imagine@email.sp.paramax.com From: Lesk@cc.snow.edu (Lesk) Subject: My bones trouble Status: O I had some trouble with bones and it looks like several others had a little as well so here is my version of quick bones. I claim no writing skills or technique. This is just something some were asking about and I hope it helps >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 08:49:29 -0700 >To: rosario.salfi@canrem.com (Rosario Salfi) >From: Lesk@cc.snow.edu (Lesk) >Subject: Re: 3.0 Textures >Cc: lesk > >>Well, why don't you just outline step by step the process by which you >>created your own bones object (let's say a finger), set up the bones, >>and then manipulated it. If you can, please take care to mention every >>little detail, since sometimes I have difficulty understanding what >>Impulse is trying to describe, and I too have to have two or three >>thinks about it. Many thanks! >> >>Paul > >If this works and it makes sense maybe I will send it to the IML as well. > >ok I am going to be as consistant as I can and for menu items I will put it >in the form of menu->selection->selection1 and for requesters that ask for >input I will just say what needs to go in. > >Detail editor: >add->primitive->tube > Radius = 30 > Height = 300 > circ sec = 12 > vitr sec = 3 > close both bottom and top. > >I like to work in the front view of the four. > > > ...... > |||||| top section note that when I refer to a > ...... section that means the points > |||||| mid section above and below are selected > ...... > |||||| base section > ...... > > for example the top section is > > ...... > |||||| > ...... <- these points used > twice once for top > and once for mid > > > > >f1 select tube >mode->pickfaces >mode->method->drag box >shift select top section (points above and below) > function->make->makesubgroup > enter tip1 > deselect faces >shift select mid section (all points above and below mid faces) > function->make->makesubgroup > enter mid1 > deselect faces >shift select base section > function->make->makesubgroup > enter base1 > deselect faces >shift select top and mid section > function->make->makesubgroup > enter midall > deslect faces >shift select top, mid, and base > function->make->makesubgroup > enter baseall > deselect faces > >If you think about this for a minute it will all make sense especially >concerning how this thing is going to bend. >OK next phase. > >mode->pick groups > (and go back to pick method points) >object->add->axis > select tha axis > select move > move axis to center of tip1 (top section) > deslect axis >object->add->axis > select axis > select move > move axis to center of mid1 (mid section) > deselect axis >object->add->axis > select axis > select move > move axis to center of base1 (mid section) > deselect axis > >Now comes the tricky part the order here is very important and you may have to >try this a few times until it works just right. > >use the find requester and choose the axis in the base section. doing it this >way should make make the order correct. > > [ The object at this point is to set the proper order ] > >mode->pickobjects > [ Corrected Order: ] >select axis for object > shift select axis in base1 > states->group > deselect >select axis in base1 > shift select axis in mid1 > states->group > deselect >select axis in mid1 > shift select axis in tip1 > states->group > deselect > [ What you have done here is simply grouped your axis. You now want to make certain that these axis are in the proper order so that when you bend say your finger, they move just like your finger would top to bottom. If they are out of order it will still work but it would look like some double jointed contortionist... ] >go back to group mode and check this out, and make very certain that the >order is right. click on the tip axis and it should be the only one blue. >deslect it and click on the axis in the mid section BOTH it and tip axis >should be highlighted. deslect them and click on the axis in base1 and all >three axis should turn blue. now the hard part! go back to pick object mode >and then click on the object axis. it should be blue with a yellow line >connecting it to the base1 axis. > If none of the above is correct all progress is at a halt! go back >remove all the groups and try it again this order is IMPORTANT! [ So either clear it all out and start the project over or go back to group mode select an axis and ungroup, repeating until everthing is ungrouped. Make sure there are no groupings at all! Then go back to object mode pick and sadly start again. You will get this, it just takes a little practice. Also this is not a replacement for the manual read through it so you have the concepts, believe me it will really help. ] > >now having that done correctly we can move on make sure nothing is selected >and go back to pick group mode. > >select axis in tip1 > States->bones->subgroups > bigsub: browse->tip1 > smallsub: browse->tip1 > OK >select axis in mid1 > States->bones->subgroups > bigsub: browse->midall > smallsub: browse->mid1 > OK >select axis in base1 > States->bones->subgroups > bigsub: browse->baseall > smallsub: browse->base1 > OK > >SAVE THAT SUCKER NOW! > If you think about this it really makes sense what has happened at >this point. > > >States->states > create > default > select buttons shape and grouping, the book says this will be the > only place you need to have this. > OK >States->states > create > start > OK >deselect all >select axis tip1 and rotate in the x 30 degrees. >space bar >select entire object >states->bones->update >states->states > create > bendtip1 > OK >select axis in tip1 and rotate another 30 degrees in x. >deslect all >select axis in mid1 and rotate it in x 30 degrees. >select entire object >states->bones->update >states->states->create > midbend > OK >deslect all >select axis in tip and rotate 30 degrees in x. >select axis in mid and rotate 30 degrees in x. >select axis in base and rotate 30 degrees in x. >select entire object >states->bones->update >states->states->create > basebend > OK > >SAVE THIS AGAIN! to much work to loose.... > >States->stateanim->make >OK >start >15 >bendtip >15 >midbend >15 >basebend >15 >start >0 >full objects >states->stateanim->play > >I sure hope this works for you! and if you find any errors or things that >just don't work feel free to let me know. > > Render Ho! > Lesk > ============================================================================= Drew Vogel, Admissions Officer at Univ. of Cincinnati, SysOp of The Cafe' BBS (513-232-4895) 1:108/245, Actor, director, Amiga fan, Imagine 3.0 user, head of BowTie Productions, documentation author, single guy, and much, much more! +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #197 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Widescreen movies Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 13:33:44 -0400 (EDT) From: jgoldman@acs.bu.edu > > Ok so I did this ...my pic is 640 x 410 (Originally 640x512) but the > finished pic only has a black strip at the bottom of the screen. :( Use an external viewer to view the animation files. Viewtek is a pretty decent player. View3.2 may work better in this case. Some players will automatically center the image on the screen. More likely, you will have to use some sort of scrolling (with Viewtek it's the arrow keys) to get the image into the center of the screen vertically. By rendering at a lower vertical resolution you end up creating image files that are only a custom size high (in your case 410 pixels). Most viewers will place the image at the the top left corner of the screen. Some will only center the images horizontally. Hence, the black space only on the bottom. Remember, you're not rendering the letterbox black bars themselves just the images contained within them. In essence, there is no 'black bar' information. If you're not satisfied with the external viewer method (and some viewers might give you problems) you can solve the letterbox problem in another way. Make two planes bright and matte black. Place these in front of any moving objects (in Stage). Use the 'Camera View' perspective view to set the planes up. Essentially, create areas of masking. The rendering will take a little longer, but the effect will have been created. I believe another method will work. In Imagine3.0 use the 'Set Zone' function to mask out a letterbox region. When rendering in the Project editor tell Imagine (it will ask you) that you want to use the Zone settings. Faster rendering times are the biggest benefit here (it's not calculating the non-zoned areas)... Good luck... J.----> E-Mail: jgoldman@acs.bu.edu +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #198 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Widescreen movies Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 06:39:15 +1200 (NZST) From: Michael Hazlett Thanks for that concise reply very handy :) MH +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #199 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: States Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 13:45:24 CDT From: zmievski@herbie.unl.edu (Andrey Zmievskiy) >Brett J. wrote; >>However, I can't seem for the life of me, to get different textures to >>morph as well as the geometry? >> >>Does anyone else who is privy to some "State Secrets" know how to >>achieve this? I've tried endless permutations of what the manual >>suggests (hints at I should say) and the only result is that the >>texture applied with the first (Locked) state stays with the object >>all the way through the animation. It won't morph to a different >>texture. Is it possible that this is impossible? Can I morph >>settings of just one texture only, through various State changes? Imagine 3.0 does not morph different textures, only the same texture or colors. You can do it in Imagine 3.1, though. Andrey +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #200 ***************************************:-) Subject: VertiSketch objects Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 13:20:38 -0600 (MDT) From: Douglas Rudd I just down loaded the vs_demo from aminet/biz/demo. It contains three lw objects- a hand, femur, and bookend (horse head). They are nicely detailed and seem to convert to Imagine very well in Interchange (I haven't rendered them yet as my machine at work doesn't have enough ram). I think the Verti- Sketch 3D digitizer was reviewed in the last AW. From what I saw, it was just too much work to be worth while (especially with a $4k price tag) but it does produce some nice results. I hope Impulse's digitizer is much easier to use (and still produce very good results). To answer the next question: No I won't upload the converted objects. These are not true pd. They are intended for LW users, but I see no problem with individuals downloading them and converting them for PERSONAL USE only. Doug Rudd rudd@plk.af.mil ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Amiga Guide to the Galaxy refers to Commodore's management as "A bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first to be lined up against the wall and shot when the revolution comes." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- They will get my Amiga from me when the pry it from my cold, dead hands. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #201 ***************************************:-) Subject: LensFlar Texture (where is it?) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 17:39:50 EDT From: joec@ensoniq.com (Joe Cotellese) I purchased the Imagine 3.0 upgrade a few weeks ago and am now starting to get into it. One thing I have found is that I can't seem to locate the lens flare texture. According to the documentation there appears to be two lens flare textures, one global and one not. I could only find the global texture. Am I missing the other one or was it not included. I am using the PC version of Imagine 3.0 if that helps. Thanks Joe Cotellese +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #202 ***************************************:-) Subject: Widescreen movies Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 21:28:00 -0100 From: torgeir.holm@tbc.bbs.no (Torgeir Holm) >Can some kind Imagineer help me out?? >I'm having problems creating Widescreen movie format..in the FAQ v5 it >" Besides making for some neat looking animations, this will als >lower rendering times. For a render that would normally be 768x482 or >so, make it 768x380. Leave the ratio just as it is (6:7). Any where >from 380-330 or so will look pretty good. " >Ok so I did this ...my pic is 640 x 410 (Originally 640x512) but the >finished pic only has a black strip at the bottom of the screen. :( >Any ideas guys?? You need to use a viewer that is able to center the picture vertically. One such viewer is Viewtek. Wide screen anims created the way you describe play back perfectly whenever I make them. If you want to single frame the anim to tape, you will have to add the top black strip manually. You Could do this with an Arexx script for ADPro or ImageFX (if you are an amiga user) Torge!r torgeir.holm@tbc.bbs.no ---- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | The BYTE Castle - 6988 3700 / 6988 4100 - Askim, Norway - Info-board | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #203 ***************************************:-) Subject: RE: HALO AROUND LIGHT IN IMAGINE Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 22:06:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Blaquiere I'm uploading a .LHA file to wuarchive; it's an Imagine object, brushmap, text file and sample picture which create a fake glare, similar to the final flash of light before the Deep Space Nine wormhole closes up. Give it a try; it may be all you need. Just make it appear for one or two frames, every time your red emergency light flashes into the camera. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #204 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Firecracker24 Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 22:02:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Blaquiere On Sun, 25 Sep 1994 w.graham6@genie.geis.com wrote: > the board to work with Quickrenders, and stuff. Make sure that QUIK is set > to Firecracker 384 (as is mine) or some other legal name found in the rend- > ering presets. QUFF should be set to RGB8. USFC should be set to True. And > OPAL should be set to false. Also, if the Use Firecracker button on the > project editor screen is not on, you'll get no visible quickrender in the > other editors. Good Luck (and what a good deal!)......Bill Graham > Actually, any quickrender size works; I often use Ham Quarterscreen (160x100), since the 24-bit display is so clear I can see what's happening without rendering a lot of pixels. In addition, QUFF can be left as ILBM-24 (sp?) so that quickrenders can be loaded directly into most any program; I need that at times. Of course, with Imagine 3.0 and up you can leave QUFF at HAM or whatever, and use Set Zone to zero in on the detail you're really interested in. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #205 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Widescreen movies Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 21:21:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike McCool Hey Michael, et al, I just got into letterboxing myself the other week, so your post, Michael, is timely. It's thanks to Steve Worley's great book, Undermining the Menagery, that I got back into experimenting with letterbox formats. To prevent distortion of my objects by the change of screen size, I found myself having to reset the pixel ratio. It's probably up to the individual project, but I ended up using 12 by 12. The way I got it centered, after the frames were rendered to the desired 'undersize,' was to let another program process them into an anim. Buildanim seems to be the tool of choice here. I batch-processed them as they were rendered in Imagine with that other great tool, Rend24, then used Buildanim to compile them into an anim. Then, whatever kind of viewer I use, they're already centered, with the nice letterbox black at top and bottom. (Hope this helps, and is not as blathery as it sounds when I reread it). +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #206 ***************************************:-) Subject: textures.lha unencoded amiga IM30 (clipmap,cliptran,brghtmap,star) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 04:35:12 -0400 From: af330@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Stephane Payette) begin 777 textures.lha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Are these textures commercial or shareware?? if shareware, > are they on Aminet? If you know the filename that would be most helpful. > thanks- > steve lombardi These textures are PD. There are made by Milan Polle (here on IML). His address his Milan@valkieser.nl You will find some of his textures on IML in a text format, once in a while. If you use an Amiga, use UUxT-GUI to decode them. I am sending you those i got yet. For all others who dont have them yet, they are REALY worth to grab! -- ------------------------------- Stephane Payette video & 3D animations af330@freenet.carleton.ca +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #208 ***************************************:-) Subject: Texture Problems 2.0 Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 03:34:45 -0400 (EDT) From: David Olivares - PHAM/F94 Okay, I've made a 10x10x10 grid of primitive tubes. I've grouped them all together and applied a texture to them. For some reason, quickrender gives me error messages when I try to render. When I render in the Project editor, I get tubes in either the z plane or the x and y plane, but not all three. I tried ungrouping the tubes and joining them together. Now quickrender doesn't have enough ram, and the project editor yields the same result. The image I see in wire frame in detail and stage looks fine. Anybody have any ideas?? Thanx. Mindflux dolivare@hermes.acs.ryerson.ca +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #209 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Widescreen movies Date: Wed, 28 Sep 94 10:43:26 EDT From: Mtucibat@cris.com On 9-28, Mike Hazlett wrote: T> On Tue, 27 Sep 1994, Mike McCool wrote: T> T> > Hey Michael, et al, T> > T> > I just got into letterboxing myself the other week, so your post, T> > Michael, is timely. T> > T> > It's thanks to Steve Worley's great book, Undermining the T> > Menagery, that I got back into experimenting with letterbox formats. T> > T> T> Yeah I found Steve's explanation a bit intense :} T> T> so if you could simplify it for me :) T> T> MH ========================= May I? When you letterbox, you're essentially cropping the image vertically. Which is why Steve W. recommends widening the shot. Of course, the difference between widening via zoom vs y-axis is still in effect. High res pixel aspect is 6/7, and doesn't come into play. I still use dctv, and I get a nice widescreen effect with 688x352. -mikeT (Have we got enough Mikes on this thread?!) * Offline Orbit 0.70b * ...Sleep is a poor substitute f +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #210 ***************************************:-) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 94 17:19:10 MDT From: paulC@Dieppe.artmediatech.nl (Paul Claessens) Hello to all, I have a question which has, I think, already been answered on this mailinglist, but since I don't know the asnwer (yet), I'm gonna ask it anyway... For a project we want to buy a PC to just render our work on (since a amiga is unfortunatly too expensive at the moment....), but we have already done some work on the amiga. We wanted to start using the Essence textures, cause we heard they were GREAT... But they couldn"t tell us where they are available and if they are also available on PC... They could only tell us that they were there for the AMIGA. If not, which I hope not, do there exist other texture packages for both AMIGA and PC??? I also would like to know if Imagine works on a PC with a pentium board in it and if it makes a REAL difference, compared to no accalarator... What I'm trying to say, is it worth the extra money to buy a pentium just for rendering with Imagine??? I hope anyone can tell me... With many thanks... \|/ ~ ~ o` 'o ( ) ___.oO \___/ Oo.___ # ...PaulC +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #211 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Widescreen movies Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 12:14:56 -0400 (EDT) From: jgoldman@acs.bu.edu > > To prevent distortion of my objects by the change of screen size, > I found myself having to reset the pixel ratio. It's probably up to the > individual project, but I ended up using 12 by 12. Ahhhh, but the whole ratio thing is strictly for the pixels only. I may be rehashing what people already know here... Speaking in a strictly NTSC sense the Amiga's standard screen is 640 x 400. The same standard screen on a PC would be 640 x 480. Why the discrepancy? The pixel ratios on the two machines are different. The Amiga's standard pixel ratio is around 6:7, so Amiga pixels are slightly taller than they are wide. The PC's pixel ratio is 1:1. They're exactly square. A 12:12 ratio, as mentioned above, is exactly the same as a 1:1. So if you're rendring to a PC medium by all means do this. Imagine only asks for pixel ratios not screen aspect ratios. If we were talking about that then the standard TV/Monitor screen aspect ratio would be 4:3. A wider format, a letterbox format, would be around 16:9. If you do the calculations you'll see that 4:3 aspect ratios yield a 1.3333 times increase in horizontal image size versus the vertical. A 16:9 aspect would be 1.7777 times wider than vertical. Imagine's rendering parameters take into account pixel ratios and screen pixel sizes. If you set the ratio to 6:7 then everything you render will render out in the correct Amiga pixel aspect. Things will look normal. It doesn't matter what the image sizes are. You could have a 640 x 10 screen and the image wouldn't be compressed or expanded. You just end up with 390 less vertical lines. All that information gets cut off. By correcting to a 12:12 (or essentially a 1:1) you just stretch the image slightly vertically on the Amiga. Cutting down on vretival resolution won't change anything. Imagine's Width and Height requesters don't affect pixel ratios. A caveat with working on a letterbox project is the lack of the top and bottom. It's not a problem, really. You just have to remember to limit your action to the center portion of the screen (vertically, that is). I know Lightwave puts two lines on the layout screens to indicate where the letterboxing begins and ends. You just restrict your action to within these lines. The same can obviously be done with Imagine and dummy objects. Sorry to be so forth about this. It's just that I went through a lot of trial end error long ago before I realized that the pixel ratios just affected the pixels. Actually, I had never really thought of them as 'pixel" ratios, per se. I don't know what I was thinking... Of course, if you're working on a PC then the 1:1 ratio will work just fine... I hope some of what I just said is understandable... I don't know about the whole pixel ratio deal for PALers. Is it the same 6:7? I don't know, or think so. Perhaps a 1:1 is correct for PAL... J.----> E-Mail: jgoldman@acs.bu.edu +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #212 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Widescreen movies Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 05:05:52 +1200 (NZST) From: Michael Hazlett On Wed, 28 Sep 1994 jgoldman@acs.bu.edu wrote: > > > Speaking in a strictly NTSC sense the Amiga's standard screen > is 640 x 400. The same standard screen on a PC would be 640 x 480. Why Well I tried using Viewtek but still no go...I still have a black line at the bottom of the screen BUT none at the top :} Can anyone solve this problem...my pic was originally 640X512(PAL) but the FAQ says to reduce the height by 100 so I render in 640X410(PAL) but I only get the black line at the bottom...Any takers? MH +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #213 ***************************************:-) Subject: Repost: Bones lessons learned Date: Wed, 28 Sep 94 10:14:00 PDT From: "Decker, Mark" I've seen so many requests for this lately, I thought I'd repost it. This was a follow on to Lesk's original bones tutorial, which unfortunately I did not save. Enjoy! ---------- First, thanks to Lesk for his bones example description. I read through it yesterday and went home to try it out from memory when I finally got back to my Amiga. I stumbled a couple times in the process, but I learned a few things that might help somebody else along. 1. When grouping axes together into bones, make sure you are in Pick Objects mode, not Pick Groups. 2. Make sure you are using the STATES Group command, not the Object Group command. 3. Once you are in Pick Objects, pick first the parent axis, then the child axis. In Lesk's tube example, if the axes are numbered from top to bottom, first pick axis number two, then hold down shift and pick axis number one and group. Next pick axis number three, then hold down shift and pick axis number 2, and so on down, selecting the object itself followed by the "root" bone and grouping them last. When I first tried this I was using the bounding box to pick both axes at once, and I think it may have been picking them in the wrong order. 4. It helps immensely to move any axes out of the way (shift M moves the axis of an object but leaves the object in place) so that they do not overlap while grouping. Once the grouping is correct, you can move the axis back into place without affecting the grouping. 5. Subgroup assignment is probably the trickiest procedure and was at the start the hardest part for me to grasp. It has not been well explained to date, but I'll see if I can help without muddying the waters any further :-). Each axis gets two subgroups assigned to it, helpfully referred to as "Big" and "Small". To the best of my understanding, the Big subgroup is the set of all faces which will be affected by motion of the axis. If a face is not in the Big subgroup, its never going to change no matter what that particular axis does. The Small subgroup is a subset of the Big subgroup, which means it can only contain faces which are also in the Big subgroup, but usually won't contain all of them. The Small subgroup moves and rotates with the axis, but all of its faces keep their shape and orientation with respect to each other. So if the faces outside the Big subgroup don't change, and the faces inside the Small subgroup don't change shape, all that's left is the faces which ARE in the Big subgroup, but ARE NOT in the Small subgroup. These faces form the actual joint, and actually stretch and deform to keep the other two sets (the outside and the Small subgroup) smoothly connected. Maybe an example will help. Think of a robotoid arm with no fingers, no wrist. It has two parts, a forearm and an upper arm, and hence two bones (axes). The parent axis (bone) sits at the center of the shoulder, with its Z axis pointing at the elbow. The child axis sits at the center of the elbow, with its Z axis pointing at what in a more highly evolved robotoid would be the hand. You need two subgroups for each bone. Lets start with the forearm. The Big subgroup for the forearm will include all of the forearm and just a little of the upper arm above the elbow, enough to allow the joint to stretch to maintain a smooth connection. The Small subgroup will contain most of the forearm, up to just below the elbow. The faces around the elbow which are in the Big subgroup but are not in the Small subgroup will be the ones which stretch and deform to allow the joint to connect smoothly. On the upper arm, the Big subgroup will contain all of the forearm, all of the upper arm, and a little of the shoulder it is attached to. The Small subgroup contains all of the forearm, and most of the upper arm up to just below the shoulder. Again, it is the faces between these two where all of the deformation takes place. 6. Once your grouping is all set up, go back to Pick Groups and pick the actual object which is the parent of all these bones. All the axes should be turn blue (in the default color scheme) to indicate that they have been picked as well. Then create your "DEFAULT" state, being sure to select both Shape and Groups. You may need to select properties as well if you want to do brush or texture tacking, but I'm still having problems with this myself, so I'm not sure. 7. In order to manipulate the bones, you need to be in Pick Groups mode. You have to pick the axis you want to manipulate, rotate (or move??) it, and accept the change. To see the result you have to pick the base object again (still in Group mode) and select Update Bones and it will then warp your object to conform to the new bone positions. This has gotten a lot more long winded than I intended, but I hope it helps clarify a few things for someone. Mark Decker mark.decker@segaoa.com Software Engineer Sega of America Inc. If Sega thought I had thoughts, they would certainly disavow all knowledge of them. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #214 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Widescreen movies Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 12:18:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike McCool Well, Michael, et all, This is weird. Especially as I'm one of those who assured you ViewTek would work for you. I just rendered a quicky letterbox image and viewed it inside, with Imagine's viewer, and the black is all at the bottom. Fine, I knew it would do this. I tried looking at the same pic with ViewTek, and again, the black was all at the bottom, instead of halved across the top and bottom. Again, no surprise. So then I tried processing that same pic with Rend24, as I suggested you do, then viewed it again, with VT. AGAIN, the black was all at athe bottom. Just occurred to me: I'm usually dealing in anims, not stills. Lemme go right quick and animate this same letterbox project . . . OK, that's it. When I render the stills as 24bitILBM's, process them with Rend24, then use Buildanim to make the anim, when I view the resultant anim with VT, it's properly letterboxed. The problem with this method is obvious: once Rend24's done processing them, the pix are no longer 24bit. And not all viewers seem to letterbox properly. VT and rtap work fine, but Superview and BigAnm end up showing all the black at the bottom again. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #215 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Widescreen movies Date: Wed, 28 Sep 94 19:55:27 EDT From: Mtucibat@cris.com T> Well I tried using Viewtek but still no go...I still have a black line at T> the bottom of the screen BUT none at the top :} T> T> Can anyone solve this problem...my pic was originally 640X512(PAL) but the T> FAQ says to reduce the height by 100 so I render in 640X410(PAL) but I T> only get the black line at the bottom...Any takers? ================ Hi, Mike: I do all this kind of stuff in AdPro. Hard to believe, but it doesn't have an auto center function. I wrote this one that I attached to a button in v2.5, but should work with any version. You can use any screen size you want for the backdrop. Your pic will center, and composite 100% on a black backdrop. -mikeT /* CENTERPIC */ ADDRESS "ADPro" OPTIONS RESULTS XSIZE x1 = ADPRO_RESULT YSIZE y1 = ADPRO_RESULT SAVER "TEMP" "XXX" RAW LOADER "BACKDROP" "XXX" 736 482 COLOR XSIZE x2 = ADPRO_RESULT YSIZE y2 = ADPRO_RESULT a = TRUNC((x2 - x1) / 2, 0) b = TRUNC((y2 - y1) / 2, 0) LOADER "TEMP" "XXX" a b EXIT * Offline Orbit 0.70b * ...Sleep is a poor substitute for Raytracing... ÿÿÿÿ +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #216 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: LensFlar Texture (where is it?) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 19:43:58 -0600 (MDT) From: Roger Straub On Tue, 27 Sep 1994, Joe Cotellese wrote: > get into it. One thing I have found is that I can't seem to locate the lens > flare texture. According to the documentation there appears to be two lens > flare textures, one global and one not. I could only find the global > texture. Am I missing the other one or was it not included. I am using the > PC version of Imagine 3.0 if that helps. > > Thanks > Joe Cotellese The LensFlar.itx texture has been changed to the Star.itx texture, because Impulse didn't want to confuse it with the Global effect. See ya, Roger +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #217 ***************************************:-) Subject: Firecracker 24 Date: Thu, 29 Sep 94 01:49:00 UTC From: w.graham6@genie.geis.com More fc24 info: if you've ordered the constant update, and have Imagine 3.1, the new Show Pic command will load and display 24bit imagery on the Firecracker. Very nice. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #218 ***************************************:-) Subject: re ripples(not) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 94 13:16:13 EST From: D.Haines@unsw.edu.au Howdy. Well this seems weird to me. Namely, I have had the ripple effect working many times under 2.0 but now under 3.0 I get a great looking wireframe of the rippled plane in the stage, but when I render from the project - no effect, no glorious waves rolling across the sea. The differance between when it worked (back in 2.0 days) and what I am doing now, is that I am using a bump texture across the plane... Could this be the reason that its screwing up. What are the known limitations of the ripple effect. Thought I would ask the question before I go into post mortem mode and try all the other variations. What I am trying to do is get a nice bumpy cycling ocean effect - you know the simple setup - a reasonably dense plane for the ocean- a nice brushmap of the sky as a background - global map, fog and carefull moody lighting. The hardest bit though is how to get a good morphable bump sequence that looks like water ? Any takers. David Haines College of Fine Arts Phone: +61 +2 +339-9555 Fax: +61 +2 +339-9506 +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #219 ***************************************:-) Subject: Widescreen movies Date: Wed, 28 Sep 94 21:43:00 -0100 From: torgeir.holm@tbc.bbs.no (Torgeir Holm) >I don't know about the whole pixel ratio deal for PALers. Is >it the same 6:7? I don't know, or think so. Perhaps a 1:1 is correct >for PAL... I use imagine 3.1 pal, and the aspect ratio that works well is 18:17. Impulse changed this to 11:10 in version 3.0, but the former works better in my projects. Torge!r torgeir.holm@tbc.bbs.no ---- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | The BYTE Castle - 6988 3700 / 6988 4100 - Askim, Norway - Info-board | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #220 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Widescreen movies Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 18:28:46 +1200 (NZST) From: Michael Hazlett On Wed, 28 Sep 1994 Mtucibat@cris.com wrote: > I do all this kind of stuff in AdPro. Hard to believe, but > it doesn't have an auto center function. I wrote this one > that I attached to a button in v2.5, but should work with > any version. You can use any screen size you want for the > backdrop. Your pic will center, and composite 100% on a > black backdrop. Thanks for that Mike I'll try it out and get back to you :) thanks MH +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #221 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Widescreen movies Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 14:34:15 +1200 (NZST) From: Michael Hazlett On Wed, 28 Sep 1994 Mtucibat@cris.com wrote: > May I? You may :) > > When you letterbox, you're essentially cropping the image > vertically. Which is why Steve W. recommends widening the > shot. Of course, the difference between widening via zoom > vs y-axis is still in effect. > > High res pixel aspect is 6/7, and doesn't come into play. > > I still use dctv, and I get a nice widescreen effect with > 688x352. > > -mikeT > > (Have we got enough Mikes on this thread?!) > I think we need more Mikes :) But yeah..I use DCTV so I'll try that out and get back thanks :) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- + ________ | ___________________________________STAR____________ / | . * . WARS . \ | / \ * . . | | . \0/ . . * | | | | Michael Hazlett . * | | P /^\ Earthlight Communications . . | | _/ \/ \ Dunedin, New Zealand | | / |\ \ * . | | / / tarkin@earthlight.co.nz . | \______________________________________________________________/ \ Imagine object creator - Especially Star Wars objects :) / ------------------------------------------------------------ +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #222 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Texture Problems 2.0 Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 00:02:18 -0700 (PDT) From: "Randy R. Wall" > Okay, I've made a 10x10x10 grid of primitive tubes. I've grouped > them all together and applied a texture to them. For some reason, > quickrender gives me error messages when I try to render. When I render > in the Project editor, I get tubes in either the z plane or the x and y > plane, but not all three. I tried ungrouping the tubes and joining them > together. Now quickrender doesn't have enough ram, and the project > editor yields the same result. The image I see in wire frame in detail > and stage looks fine. Anybody have any ideas?? Ya, buy some more ram...I think thats your problem 2.0 will not warn you if you do not have enough to render everything, but will cause odd effects such as you explaned above. =RRW= +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #223 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Repost: Bones lessons learned Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 00:14:18 -0700 (PDT) From: "Randy R. Wall" > 1. When grouping axes together into bones, make sure you are in Pick > Objects mode, not Pick Groups. Actually you don't have to be in Objects mode though it is easier. I have used Groups mode many time. All you need to do it select an axis, then select the next axis and press R/A_G. Then just click the mouse anywhere on the screen to unselect them all and start at your next axis for your next set of axis. > 2. Make sure you are using the STATES Group command, not the Object Group > command. The States Grouping command is the Objects Grouping command, there is not one for each. Basically there is no States Grouping command, they just moved it to the States Menu. pressing R/A_G will work fine. =RRW= +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #224 ***************************************:-) Subject: Imagine CD-Rom: isnt it out??? Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 09:41:29 GMT+1 From: "Wizard" ___ | O | .MODEL SMALL | | .DATA | O | LOGIN DB " _ __ ___ ______Wizard logged in" | | .CODE | O | MAILING PROC FAR |/\_| Every1 high, I have a simple question: have Impulse already released the CD-Rom with "advanced Imagine features & tips"? /\_ | O | RET | | MAILING ENDP T-H-A-N-X | O | STACK 200H ae(-_^)ue |___| END MAILING _ __ ___ ______Wizard signing off +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #225 ***************************************:-) Subject: "Extreme Textures" wanted Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 09:40:47 GMT+1 From: "Wizard" ___ | O | .MODEL SMALL | | .DATA | O | LOGIN DB " _ __ ___ ______Wizard logged in" | | .CODE | O | MAILING PROC FAR |/\_| Every1 high, I'm searching for the full "Extreme Textures" series (humans, stones, woods, fabrics,......): could someone show me an anonFTP site were I can find them? Could someone uuencode me them? The textures are are upped to "Hall of fame BBS" but I havent a modem to d/l them (0046/910/26665 Hall of fame). /\_ | O | RET | | MAILING ENDP T-H-A-N-X | O | STACK 200H ae(-_^)ue |___| END MAILING _ __ ___ ______Wizard signing off +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #226 ***************************************:-) Subject: Im3.0PC Textures failures Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 09:39:38 GMT+1 From: "Wizard" ___ | O | .MODEL SMALL | | .DATA | O | LOGIN DB " _ __ ___ ______Wizard logged in" | | .CODE | O | MAILING PROC FAR |/\_| Every1 high, I've got many probs managing Imagine v3.0 PC textures: 1] how the "ring select" option can vary the texture results (I've tryed many different settings obtaining always the same effects)?!?! 2] clrnoiz2 and filnoiz2 wont work, I have tryed these with different settings and shapes (sphere, plane with normal and properly oriented z axis, tube....), and also with scanline or trace rendering methods. Please note Validate v0.4 McAfee reports: File Name: filnoiz2.itx twinkle.itx clrnoiz2.itx Size: 3,408 3,404 3,408 Date: 4-13-1994 4-13-1994 4-13-1994 File Authentication: Check Method 1 - 5A80 5ADA 4BF1 Check Method 2 - 151D 0E21 049A /\_ | O | RET | | MAILING ENDP T-H-A-N-X | O | STACK 200H ae(-_^)ue |___| END MAILING _ __ ___ ______Wizard signing off +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #227 ***************************************:-) Subject: PS Fonts: Metamorphosis wanted Date: Thu, 29 Sep 94 12:28:21 CET From: cjo Wizard wrote; >Yaba daba doo Imagineers, > this email is destinated to people who can provide me >Metamorphosis (PC font manager software - isnt this shareware? I dunno!) >or to Amiga fellows (or PCs) that can provide me some PS Adobe Type I. There are LOADS of such fonts on Aminet (/text/fonts/AT1Fonts-***.lha). If you don't have ftp-access, ask here again or mail me if you like. ----------------------------------------------------------------- | Conny Joensson | Swedish Space Corp. Esrange | | Kiruna | Satellite operations - Telecom Div. | | Sweden | cjo@smtpgw.esrange.ssc.se | ----------------------------------------------------------------- +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #228 ***************************************:-) Subject: Imagine 4 everybody! Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 09:39:02 GMT+1 From: "Wizard" ___ | O | .MODEL SMALL | | .DATA | O | LOGIN DB " _ __ ___ ______Wizard logged in" | | .CODE | O | MAILING PROC FAR |/\_| From: Wizard To: Anders Lattermann Subject: Imagine 4 everybody! InterNet: Latte@p24.anet.bbs.bad.se Imagine 4 everybody!/idea/project "Display preview of image while computing; halt rendering when part way through; continue rendering a halted partial scene later; render partial image (i.e: start/end tracing at columns and rows number); in other words: POVRAY options!!!" Imagine 4 everybody!/idea/detail "Total Internal Reflection (TIR) box into attribs requester" Imagine 4 everybody!/idea/detail "Revamped point editing, mirror function, UV mapping ala Caligari v2.1. Circular bend, wrapping shrink functions, rail extrude and morphed rail extrusion ala Real3d; then what about these stuffs and skew function?" Imagine 4 everybody!/idea/detail "What about primitives like blob, bicubic patch, quadric, cubic quartic and circles of arc??" Imagine 4 everybody!/idea/detail "We all _NEED_ real free form editing, we _NEED_ non-uniform rational b-splines, we _NEED_ N.U.R.B.S." Imagine 4 everybody!/idea/detail "Remember: ITALIANS DO IT BETTER!!! and Guido Quaroni, author of Morphus (known also as PoNgO) did non-linear trasformations (bend, twist...) better than Imagine programmers!!!!" Imagine 4 everybody!/idea/stage "Quaternion-base spline animation ala Caligari v2.1" Imagine 4 everybody!/idea/stage "Pan, dolly, roll functions for cameras with real time (bounding box *SHIT*) results into perspective window: have u ever seen 3dstudio????" Imagine 4 everybody!/idea/stage "Possibility to change hotspot and fallof values for spot lights into stage editor (with also all other functions like tracking already implemented into Imagine)" Imagine 4 everybody!/idea/project "We all PC user _WANT_ support for impulse RGB pics file format: just a simple converter to manipulate them." Imagine 4 everybody!/idea/misc "What about ~LESS WORDS AND MORE FACTS~???? There are too many proclamations from Impulse, too many _OLD_ new features in the last release of Imagine: - states??? we can live without them! - bones??? 3dstudio has hierarchy animation from the first version! - brush tacking??? this is another old stuff - applique??? just a povray feature! - deform tool??? a bad copy of caligari one - lens flare??? no comment!!?! - particle??? puah! nothing compares real3d - terrain editor and texturator??? where are these?!?!? there arent any new features u can laugh IT'S A MIRACLE!!! and all is realized often bad" Imagine 4 everybody!/bugpc/detail "wrinkle, clrnoiz2 and filnoiz2 wont work, I have tryed these with different settings and shapes (sphere, plane with normal and properly oriented z axis, tube....), and also with scanline or trace rendering methods. All I obtained is a x*y blank screen; I use Imagine v3.0 PC" Imagine 4 everybody!/bugpc/detail "I _WANT_ TGA color mapped, TGA true color (RGB), TIFF color mapped, JPEG, GIF, PCX (all these with or without any kind of compression - except JPEG obviously!) support for applique and brush mapping: we all PC users are being frustrated" Imagine 4 everybody!/bugpc/detail "_FORGIVE_ I and all PC users converts their dummies 2.0 attributes files! Impulse make the bug and Impulse _MUST_ remedy it!!! I mean converting the amiga Imagine attributes into PC red shifted ones and now do the reverse step, converting edited atts into 3.0 right file formats: if Motorola and Intel processors have different file managing, it isnt my problem, it's a problem for the bad guys at Impulse" Imagine 4 everybody!/bugpc/detail "It seems a strange request but PC users _NEED_ AutoCAD DXF and 3DStudio 3DS file conversion!?!?" Imagine 4 everybody!/bugpc/misc "I cannot use properly the redirection of quickrender files: <> is the message I get" Imagine 4 everybody!/bugpc/misc "Lets try this: -add a sphere; -change the reflect sphere attrib to 255,255,255; -add a plane; -add a texture dots with filter 255,255,255 (into atts requester or into the dots texture requester) to the plane; -move the sphere behind the plane; -render with scanline option: no prob; -render with full trace methods: the sphere will be black, no reflection, no other attributes - z-buffering problem I think!?!?!" /\_ | O | RET | | MAILING ENDP T-H-A-N-X | O | STACK 200H ae(-_^)ue |___| END MAILING _ __ ___ ______Wizard signing off +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #229 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Widescreen movies Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 11:25:02 -0400 (EDT) From: jgoldman@acs.bu.edu > > Well I tried using Viewtek but still no go...I still have a black line at > the bottom of the screen BUT none at the top :} > > Can anyone solve this problem...my pic was originally 640X512(PAL) but the > FAQ says to reduce the height by 100 so I render in 640X410(PAL) but I > only get the black line at the bottom...Any takers? If you render the image at 640 x 410 you still have do something about the lack of black information at the top. Imagine never renders it. The best method I've found (works real sweet, too) is to use the Set Zone function to 'letterbox' out an area. Render in full screen (640 x 512). Imagine will create the black areas, but it won't calculate any information outside of the Zone. Therefore, you get a beautiful letterbox result with little effort... However, if you don't have 3.0+ then you can't use Zone Rendering. If you use Viewtek you will still have to manually move the 240 x 410 image to center vertically. Do this with the arrow keys (or maybe it's CNTRL + Arrow Keys). If you only need to play ANIM5s (the most widely recognized format) from memory then use View3.2. View3.2 might work better because you can reposition the screen (via arrow keys), and the background will stay black. I think VT actually pulls down its screen, so the next deep screen becomes visible. Not good... Apart from that, if you've got AdPro, I'd say use the script that was posted here earlier. I don't have AdPro so this isn't an option for me... There are two ways of approaching the problem. Create a black area at the top, or manually move the image down when viewing... Good Luck... J.----> E-Mail: jgoldman@acs.bu.edu +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #230 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Widescreen movies (Labyrinth) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 94 09:25:31 PDT From: Harv@cup.portal.com Bradley Schenck (bws@cup.portal.com) created a CD-ROM-only game for Amigas (any Amiga with a CD-ROM drive, or CDTV, or CD32 (and there are also PeeCee and Mac versions) called "Labyrinth of Time", which is published by Electronic Arts and is in stores. All of the artwork/scenery/settings on this graphical adventure game was rendered on Amigas using Imagine 2.0. It is all rendered in "wide-screen" format since the bottom third or so of the screen contains messages and a navigational bar of buttons. Perhaps Brad can be coaxed into explaining his wide-screen technique if you email him. I don't know if he monitors this list. If you want to see what Imagine is capable of in the hands of someone who has so much artistic talent you can get a little just by being in the same room with him for a few minutes, buy Labyrinth and have a look. Harv harv@cup.portal.com +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #231 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: LW PC ported??? Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 12:00:42 -0600 (MDT) From: Douglas Rudd Not yet. LW4.0 is coming to Windoooozzzz, The New Testiment perhaps around end of the year. Much speculation on what happens with LW's arexx macros and 3rd party modules. LW4.0 may not run too well in Windooozzzz 3.1 or Chicago (no problem, it won't be out until 1999, right?). But who cares? Imagine 3.1 is here right now. Doug Rudd rudd@plk.af.mil ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Amiga Guide to the Galaxy refers to Commodore's management as "A bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first to be lined up against the wall and shot when the revolution comes." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- They will get my Amiga from me when the pry it from my cold, dead hands. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #232 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re:Essence PC textures Date: Thu, 29 Sep 94 14:17:40 EDT From: joec@ensoniq.com (Joe Cotellese) >For a project we want to buy a PC to just render our work on (since a amiga >is unfortunatly too expensive at the moment....), but we have already done >some work on the amiga. We wanted to start using the Essence textures, cause >we heard they were GREAT... But they couldn"t tell us where they are >available and if they are also available on PC... >They could only tell us that they were there for the AMIGA. If not, which I >hope not, do there exist other texture packages for both AMIGA and PC??? > >I also would like to know if Imagine works on a PC with a pentium board in it >and if it makes a REAL difference, compared to no accalarator... >What I'm trying to say, is it worth the extra money to buy a pentium just >for rendering with Imagine??? Actually, I have not come across Essence for PC textures. Last I heard they were planning on doing them. I haven't been able to get a hold of Apex software to verify this. One thing to consider is IM3.1. It comes with some AMAZING textures many of which rival the Essence textures. Yes, Imagine PC does work with Pentiums. I have a 60 and a 66Mhz. It is very very very very (did I say verify) fast. If time is money (and when isn't it) then definetely spend the extra couple hundred bucks for a Pentium. Joe Cotellese +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #233 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Imagine 4 everybody! Date: Thu, 29 Sep 94 13:31:37 CDT From: zmievski@herbie.unl.edu (Andrey Zmievskiy) >- states??? we can live without them! States are a great help. Less clutter, more efficient than having multiple copies of the object. >- bones??? 3dstudio has hierarchy animation from the first version! Bones are much more than just hierarchy. Have you ever tried using them? Seems like you haven't. >- brush tacking??? this is another old stuff So what? It's useful. >- applique??? just a povray feature! You mean heightfields? In Imagine you can apply applique function to any object, not just plane, like in POV-Ray. Get real. >- deform tool??? a bad copy of caligari one It'll get better. >- lens flare??? no comment!!?! Why not? Haven't used it? >- particle??? puah! nothing compares real3d Then don't use Imagine, use Real3D, which is really S-L-O-W, in my opinion. >there arent any new features u can laugh IT'S A MIRACLE!!! and all is >realized often bad" Then why did you get Imagine? Stick to Real 3D if you like it so much. >"wrinkle, clrnoiz2 and filnoiz2 wont work, I have tryed these with >different settings and shapes (sphere, plane with normal and properly >oriented z axis, tube....), and also with scanline or trace rendering >methods. All I obtained is a x*y blank screen; I use Imagine v3.0 PC" Works fine for me. You should've made more effort and pay closer attention to what you were doing. I don't think that the tone of your message will convince Impulse to implement all that you want. You should've suggested the changes, not demanded them. If you can't communicate politely, be quiet. Andrey +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #234 ***************************************:-) Subject: Imagine 4 everybody! Date: Thu, 29 Sep 94 16:52:24 EST From: mrivers@tbag.tscs.com (Michael Rivers) Here's my suggestion... Light Maps.(not bright maps)... The ability to use a brushmap to mask off a lightsource (without ray-tracing). Would be similar to putting a transparency map on a sphere and putting a light in to sphere and tracing, but without the sphere and in scanline also. ------------------------------------------------------- | Commodore failure. Press mouse button to continue | | Guru Meditation $83500000 Task : $00000CBM | ------------------------------------------------------- A4000/060 wow! this is fast. +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #235 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Imagine 4 everybody! Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 23:42:52 -0700 (PDT) From: "Randy R. Wall" > > I don't think that the tone of your message will convince Impulse to > implement all that you want. You should've suggested the changes, not > demanded them. If you can't communicate politely, be quiet. > > Andrey I agree with you Andrey, this guy doesn't sound like he even knows what he's talking about. Let alone tried to actually use any of the things he has critasized. =RRW= +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #236 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Essence PC textures Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 15:24:58 -0600 (MDT) From: Douglas Rudd > Actually, I have not come across Essence for PC textures. Last I heard they > were planning on doing them. I haven't been able to get a hold of Apex > software to verify this. One thing to consider is IM3.1. It comes with > some AMAZING textures many of which rival the Essence textures. > > Yes, Imagine PC does work with Pentiums. I have a 60 and a 66Mhz. It is > very very very very (did I say verify) fast. If time is money (and when > isn't it) then definetely spend the extra couple hundred bucks for a Pentium. > > Joe Cotellese > > The last I heard was that the PC port of Essence was on indefinite hold. Apex is probably very busy porting Essence textures to LW4.0. The complaint they made about IM30-PC was the difficulty in getting the standards from Impulse. The point about IM31 having more than enough great textures is a good one. The reason we might like to see Essence on the PC (from the Amiga standpoint) is for compatibility. I believe both versions should have much the same support from 3rd party as well as from Impulse. Doug Rudd rudd@plk.af.mil ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Amiga Guide to the Galaxy refers to Commodore's management as "A bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first to be lined up against the wall and shot when the revolution comes." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- They will get my Amiga from me when the pry it from my cold, dead hands. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #237 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: Mirror-Extrudes Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 17:24:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Curcio Nicholas On Mon, 3 Oct 1994, Jason B Koszarsky wrote: > > I'm working with Imagine3.0(Amiga) and have problems with Mirroring > the ends for extrusions. If I use a half sphere, then it works fine. > But I've had no luck with custom objects. > My custom objects will extrude but the ends won't mirror. > > Jaeson K. I had this exact problem just recently. Two days ago to be exact. ;) To what length are you attempting to extrude the object? I was trying to extrude half of a Mech leg 15 units. Didn't work. I accidently tried 100 units (the default) and it worked perfectly. Then I just picked all the points on one side and translated them 85 units back. I haven't had time to experiment with the problem, yet. Just happy that I got it to work by accident. :) Later, Nick +---> ARCHIVE MESSAGE NUMBER #238 ***************************************:-) Subject: Re: banner object Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 09:06:40 -0600 (MDT) From: Douglas Rudd > a banner tacked to a wall with the center sagging down. i have tried a box > object, subdivide multiple times, and then deform but its not quite right. > any other ideas? > I havn't actually tried this, but it seems than a good gray scale bit map of your banner "Appliqued" to a high point count plane may do the trick. It would take a lot of ram and slow things down a bit. You might also try a clip and altitude map set on a simple plane. I agree that clip maps take a little more work, but anyone who has seen what Snap Maps can do should agree it's worth the effort. Doug Rudd rudd@plk.af.mil ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Amiga Guide to the Galaxy refers to Commodore's management as "A bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first to be lined up against the wall and shot when the revolution comes." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- They will get my Amiga from me when the pry it from my cold, dead hands. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------